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God is Not a Torturer: Debunking the Doctrine of Eternal Torment
ReligiousLiberty.TV ^ | 10/17/2012 | Michael Peabody

Posted on 10/17/2012 5:32:20 PM PDT by ReligiousLibertyTV

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To: HerrBlucher
We can argue what the Bible says and actually means ad infinitum. That is the reason why there are so many protestant sects, each claims to have the real Truth. I call that chaos. Believe what you will, what is true is true. We are not obligated to believe one way or the other about Hell, only to be obedient to God.

No, we have Protestants, because the catholic church walked away from God as Martin Luther so ably demonstrated.
61 posted on 10/18/2012 8:54:21 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency.)
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To: Cronos
I read that as "Old Testament accounts of the invasion of Canada" :)

Well... there were those Lamanites. They invaded Canada? Of course it helps if one can read the really old "Reformed Egyptian" texts (or be able to make it up on the spot...same difference).

62 posted on 10/18/2012 9:28:08 AM PDT by BlueDragon (going to change my name to "Nobody" then run for elective office)
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To: SoConPubbie

Believe what you will about the Catholic Church, nevertheless there are thousands of Protestant sects each claiming to have the Truth. They vary theologically with each other from just a little, to quite a bit. These thousands of sects exist as the end result of the Reformation. I don’t think Martin Luther had that in mind, far from it, but it was inevitable as the break of day.


63 posted on 10/18/2012 10:39:50 AM PDT by HerrBlucher (Praise to the Lord the Almighty the King of Creation)
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To: Cronos

Now that would be the book of Mormon.


64 posted on 10/18/2012 11:01:13 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: HerrBlucher

Martin Luther had no idea of setting up some kind of new denomination.

He wanted the Catholic church to get back to the truths of Scripture and they wouldn’t have anything to do with it so they very ungraciously uninvited him from membership in their church.

IOW, THEY ex-communicated him aka kicked him out.

While it is possible that some Protestant denominations do claim that they are the only way to God, by and large, if you read the statement of faith of virtually any of those churches, they all essentially say the same thing about salvation, that it is by grace, through faith in Christ. Not through membership in their church, not through baptism into it, not by works of righteousousness they have established must be done, not through jumpng through their ecclesiastical hoops, all as the Catholic church claims be done through it to earn salvation.

Precious few of those “Protestant sects” have the chutzpah to claim themsleves to be the sole means of salvation of mankind, as the Catholic church does.

Salvation is through a person, not a religion. It’s granted as a gift through forgiveness, not earned by works or suffering. Nothing can pay for sin but death, not religious duties, not acts of righteousness, not suffering.

The only thing that can pay for sin is death and Jesus paid that penalty for us so that through faith in His FINISHED work on the cross, by faith, we can partake in that forgivenss and eternal life. We are granted a pardon from the consequences of sin when we throw ourelves on the mercy of the court.


65 posted on 10/18/2012 12:56:19 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Cronos

Suffering does not purify us from sin.

There is no payment for sin but death.

If you die with sin held to your account, you go to hell.

If that sin is forgiven, there is no sin held to your account and you go to heaven.

There is no purgatory.


66 posted on 10/18/2012 12:59:51 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: daniel1212
And ReligiousLiberty.TV is another SDA front.

Thanks for that enlightening bit of information. How deceitful interesting that that little tidbit on that connection was not mentioned until you exposed it.

67 posted on 10/18/2012 1:05:38 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: ScubieNuc

I don’t kill loved ones.


68 posted on 10/18/2012 5:54:14 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: metmom

Indeed. The notion of purgatory negates Christ’s sacrifice.
Who needs saving when everyone gets thoroughly scrubbed by spending 0% of eternity in a great washing machine for dirty souls?


69 posted on 10/18/2012 5:58:57 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: ctdonath2

So in the original line of thinking, you would rather your loved ones be tortured forever instead of being put out of their misery. Wow! Well, I don’t see that as love or mercy or honorable and definately not a characteristic of the God that I know.


70 posted on 10/18/2012 6:04:58 PM PDT by ScubieNuc (When there is no justice in the laws, justice is left to the outlaws.)
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To: ScubieNuc

Sin has consequences.
And yet I don’t encase my loved ones in bubble wrap.


71 posted on 10/18/2012 6:21:30 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: ReligiousLibertyTV

I don,t know what Heaven or hell is and neither do any one else that is able to talk about it.


72 posted on 10/18/2012 6:34:42 PM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: metmom

Oh, they have other fronts as well. Hope your health improves.


73 posted on 10/18/2012 7:31:36 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: ctdonath2

Suppose the person you love the most ends up in eternal torment. Could you be happy in Heaven knowing the suffering that lies ahead?


74 posted on 10/18/2012 8:45:11 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: ctdonath2

Absolutely, sin has consequences. I never said otherwise. You seem to be saying then, if God doesn’t torture the unbelievers forever, then the sinners get away scot free. I don’t buy that for an instant.

For one, Hell does exist for a while and I believe that our concept of time doesn’t exist in Hell. In other words a minute in Hell is probably like a thousand years. So, no one wants to be in Hell, even if just for a minute.

Two, imagine standing before God our Father and Creator, and seeing the hard proof of the glory that He is and the wonderful life you could have had with Him. Then seeing the proof of your life and where you rejected Christ. That moment, in and of itself will be crushing. THAT is what all courts here on Earth are actually working for, for the perpatrator to actually and fully realize what they have done and what they have lost. The Great White Throne Judgement will do that.

God is Just and God is Merciful. A just God has a complete and thorough judgement. A Merciful God doesn’t torture his creation forever.


75 posted on 10/19/2012 5:43:42 AM PDT by ScubieNuc (When there is no justice in the laws, justice is left to the outlaws.)
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To: ScubieNuc

You’re confusing consequences with retribution.


76 posted on 10/19/2012 6:44:58 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: ctdonath2

Feel free to explain to me what you mean. I’ll listen.


77 posted on 10/19/2012 5:32:26 PM PDT by ScubieNuc (When there is no justice in the laws, justice is left to the outlaws.)
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To: ScubieNuc

Consequences are natural.
Retribution is deliberate.


78 posted on 10/19/2012 7:41:59 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: ctdonath2

Ummm...ok. Now explain to me where those definitions show where I’ve gone off track.


79 posted on 10/20/2012 6:42:52 AM PDT by ScubieNuc (When there is no justice in the laws, justice is left to the outlaws.)
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To: ReligiousLibertyTV

The light of love burns and tortures those who have rejected love. God would be moved if He did anything other than love(’I am God, and I change not-Malachi 3:6.)

The hate comes from man’s free will to reject love ,not from God whom is perfection and love.

St. Isaac of Syria captures this so well along with many other Church Fathers

From St. Isaac of Syria

... those who find themselves in hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo no greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in hell are deprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed! (St. Isaac of Syria, Mystic Treatises)


80 posted on 10/24/2012 4:47:21 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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