From http://www.bible.ca/su-annihilation-refuted.htm:
Annihilation vs. Eternal conscious torment |
Man's body is not immortal right now.
- Man is not immortal YET, but will be made that way! But mortality corresponds to the body. It is the body that will be made immortal, not the soul!
- "The real issue between Dualists and Annihilationists is nothing other than this: Does Scripture teach that the wicked will be made immortal for the purpose of suffering endless pain; or does it teach that the wicked following whatever degree and duration of pain God may justly inflict, will finally and truly die, perish and become extinct forever and ever?" (The Fire That Consumes, Edward W. Fudge, Annihilationist, p. 425)
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First we notice that we as Christians are to seek immortality. Obviously we do not possess it yet if we seek it |
Rom 2:7 "to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life" |
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Second at resurrection the mortal (us now with a physical mortal body) will put on the immortal (all men will have an immortal body) |
1 Cor 15:53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory. "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?" |
Now this is a powerful argument against annihilation. If ALL MEN both good and WICKED put on immortality at the resurrection, then how do they then cease to exist? What kind of immortality is that? Hence eternal torment! Never to die again! Man's body is not immortal now, but will be made so. All men, whether good or wicked! Man survives death consciously, then at resurrection is made immortal!
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How can the wicked suffer the second death if they are immortal and then suffer the second death? If the wicked die again, then how can: |
"come about the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory?" 1 Cor 15 |
- Simple, mortal refers to the body part not the soul. when man dies he survives death consciously. After resurrection, his immortal spiritual body is given to him and he will never again be apart from his body. IMMORTAL. But the second death is not the separation of the body and soul, but the separation of man from God for eternity in hell!
- Remember, the saying, "Death is swallowed up in victory" will come about at the final resurrection. If the wicked die PHYSICALLY again, then God was wrong when he said: "when this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory."" Obviously this was not true, for the wicked are swallowed up in physical death and death keeps its victory forever!
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While living |
We are a spirit with a physical body |
While dead in Hades |
We are a spirit without a physical body |
after resurrection |
We are a spirit with a spirit body, just like Christs! 1 Jn 3:2; Phil 3:20-21 |
This argument is irrefutable unless one:
- denies that the wicked are even raised from the dead as Christadelphians do thus contradicting "there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." Acts 24:15
- affirms that none of 1 Cor 15 has anything to say about the resurrection of the wicked, the central resurrection chapter of the Bible. Yet v22 proves this applies to ALL MEN! "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive."
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The #1 argument annihilationists use: |
Herbert W. Armstrong and his many splinter groups state:
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A loving God wouldn't torment forever his creation |
A loving God will torment forever his creation |
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Our God is a loving, merciful Father who does not want to consign anyone to that fate. (What Happens After Death?, United Church of God, an International Association) |
"The verse ... Rev 20:10 ... indicates that the devil is to be cast into the lake of fire that had already consumed and destroyed the beast and false prophet. Satan, being spirit, is the one who will be tormented forever. The evil angels-the demons-will be included with Satan in his torment" (What Happens After Death?, United Church of God, an International Association) |
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Herbert W. Armstrong and many of his splinter groups have taken the unusual position that the Devil and his angels will be tormented forever.
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Argument refuted: |
Seventh-day Adventists & Jehovah's Witnesses believe the devil and demons will be annihilated along with evil men. Christadelphians do not believe that the devil and demons are actual persons, but merely the personification of sin.
These annihilationists argue:
- "Morally, the doctrine of eternal conscious torment is incompatible with the Biblical revelation of divine love and justice. The moral intuition God has implanted within our consciences cannot justify the insatiable cruelty of a God who subjects sinners to unending torments. Such a God is like a bloodthirsty monster and not like the loving Father revealed to us by Jesus Christ." (a SDA leader)
- "The doctrine of eternal torment is a wicked defamation of Jehovah. It is a foul stain upon his lovable name." (a Jw leader)
- And now, who is responsible for this God-dishonoring doctrine? And what is his purpose? The promulgator of it is Satan himself; and his purpose in introducing it has been to frighten the people away from studying the Bible and to make them hate God. (Jw's: J. F. Rutherford, Watchtower Society's Second President)
- How can Christians possibly project a deity of such cruelty and vindictiveness whose ways include inflicting everlasting torture upon his creatures, however sinful they may have been? Surely a God who would do such a thing is more nearly like Satan than like God, at least by any ordinary moral standards, and by the gospel itself. (Clark Pinnock, Professor, McMaster University)
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Argument refuted: |
This argument is faulty human reasoning and not based on any passage of the Bible. We may not understand the justice of God by eternally punishing the wicked. Yet we also do not understand the grace of God by rewarding the saved with eternal life. On human terms, we cannot understand either "kindness and severity of God" Rom 11:22 |
Wicked Men, the devil and his angels will be tormented forever:
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The devil & his angels tormented forever |
Wicked men tormented forever |
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Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. |
Rev 14:10-11 he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." |
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The devil and angels are just as much God's creation as man, therefore the argument is invalid!
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Annihilation vs. Eternal conscious torment |
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In case you had not noticed Arians, who take an entirely physical outlook of man have a real problem regardless of whether they take the fire of hell literal or symbolic.
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Annihilation vs. Eternal conscious torment |
H. W. Armstrong and splinter groups: Literal
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Valley of Hinnom, located just outside the city of Jerusalem. You can see it in the maps at the back of your Bible. H. W. Armstrong and splinter groups believe that this valley is where the wicked will literally be burnt with literal fire. |
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Seventh-day Adventist: Literal and symbolic
- Location of Hell ... this earth is reserved for that fire which will bring judgment and perdition to the wicked. Their punishment will be in this earth. ... The prophet portrays the entire planet enveloped in the destroying fire. Even the streams and dust are transformed into an exploding combustion of pitch and brimstone." ... This brings us to the third great fact about the subject of hell. Hell as a place of punishment will be this earth turned into a lake of fire at the Day of Judgment." (Seventh-day Adventist, Joe Crews, Amazing Facts, Hell-Fire)
Jehovah's Witness: literal and Symbolic
- "the surrounding language of the book of revelation make evident the symbolic quality of the lake of fire" (Jehovah's Witness, Aid to Bible understanding, Lake of fire)
- "so also the revelation of Jesus Christ with his powerful angels in a flaming fire will result in permanent destruction only for the wicked 2 Pe 3:5-7" (Jehovah's Witness, Aid to Bible understanding, Fire)
- "Symbolic of compete destruction . Jesus used Gehenna as a representative of utter destruction. ... the symbolic picture here" (Jehovah's Witness, Aid to Bible understanding, Gehenna)
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Annihilation vs. Eternal conscious torment |
H. W. Armstrong and splinter groups:
- "Even so it will be with the FINAL gehenna fire. It will be unquenched--but it will finally burn itself out!"(WCG, What is hell? Ambassador BCC, Lesson 6, 1977)
- Many people believe in an ... ever-burning hellfire ... But the Bible's simple teaching conveys nothing of the kind. Our God is a loving, merciful Father who does not want to consign anyone to that fate. (What Happens After Death?, United Church of God, an International Association)
- This is why Jesus calls it aionios or age-lasting fire! The translation "everlasting" is misleading, since the fire itself will not burn forever. Obviously not, since God's Word clearly shows that when the present earth is purged and purified, it will be refashioned into a resplendent NEW EARTH! ... Jude 7 calls this ancient punishment "eternal fire" -- yet, the fire which devoured these cities in ancient times is not still burning in Palestine today! It burned itself out, long, long ago! ... "Unquenchable Fire" Mark 9:43 ... Does this mean the fire burns forever? Not at all. Take a match, light it and set a piece of paper on fire. Let it burn. Don't put it out, or snuff it out. Just let the paper burn, until it burns up. Soon it will burn itself out. Now, what do you have? A burned-up piece of paper. But did you put it out? Did you "quench" it? No. You left it unquenched. It was not quenched. Not at all! Even so, the final Gehenna fire will not be "quenched," or "put out." Nevertheless, in time, it will burn itself out when the wicked and all their wicked works are burned up! Any fire will go out when it runs out of fuel. That's the way the final Gehenna fire will be. In time, it will naturally burn itself out!(Heaven, Hell And The Hereafter, Triumph Prophetic Ministries (Church of God) W. F. Dankenbring)
Seventh-day Adventist:
- the New Testament references to "eternal punishment" (Matt 25:46), "eternal destruction" (2 Thess 1:9), "eternal fire" (Matt 25:41; Jude 7), and "eternal judgment" (Heb 6:2), do not necessarily mean a process that goes on forever. ... The actual duration of aionos is determined by the context. For example, the fire by which the wicked are punished is said to be "eternal" (Matt 18:8; 25:41) or "unquenchable" (Matt 3:12). This can hardly mean that the wicked will be agonizing forever in the midst of unextinguishable fire. The latter is clear from Jude 7, which says that Sodom and Gomorrah suffered "a punishment of eternal fire." Here "eternal-aionou" obviously means not never-ending but complete and permanent. (SDA, Samuele Bacchiocchi, Advent Hope For Human Hopelessness)
- the fire is "eternal-aionios," not because of its endless duration, but because of its complete consumption and annihilation of the wicked. (SDA, Samuele Bacchiocchi, ch 6, Hell: Eternal Torment Or Annihilation)
- "the length of punishment. HOW long will the wicked continue to live and suffer in that fire? ... one thing we can say with certainty--the wicked won't live in that fire throughout eternity." (Seventh-day Adventist, Joe Crews, Amazing Facts, Hell-Fire)
Jehovah's Witness:
- "Some commentators have pointed to the Biblical instances of the word torment to support the teaching of eternal suffering in fire. However, ... Rev 20:10 does not have that sense." (Jehovah's Witness, Aid to Bible understanding, Torment)
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Annihilation vs. Eternal conscious torment |
H. W. Armstrong and splinter groups: YES (see below)
Christadelphians: NO! (The devil doesn't exist.) Jehovah's Witness: NO
- "those cast into the lake of fire, [devil is cast there] go into second death from which there is no resurrection" (Jehovah's Witness, Aid to Bible understanding, Lake of fire)
- "Some commentators have pointed to the Biblical instances of the word torment to support the teaching of eternal suffering in fire. However, ... Rev 20:10 does not have that sense." (Jehovah's Witness, Aid to Bible understanding, Torment)
Seventh-day Adventist: NO
- "sinners, Satan, and the devils ultimately are consumed in the lake of fire and experience the extinction of the second death" (SDA, Samuele Bacchiocchi, ch 6, Hell: Eternal Torment Or Annihilation)
- Malachi 4:1 "the day is coming, burning like a furnace ... so that it will leave them neither root nor branch" No words of any language could make it more forceful or clear. This eternal fire burns up eternally. Even Satan, the root, is finally consumed. (Seventh-day Adventist, Joe Crews, Amazing Facts, Hell-Fire)
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Annihilation vs. Eternal conscious torment |
Exclusive to H. W. Armstrong and splinter groups:
- The verse ... Rev 20:10 ... indicates that the devil is to be cast into the lake of fire that had already consumed and destroyed the beast and false prophet. Satan, being spirit, is the one who will be tormented forever. The evil angels-the demons-will be included with Satan in his torment (Matthew 25:41). (What Happens After Death?, United Church of God, an International Association)
- "Satan will be cast into the same conflagration that will destroy all incorrigible mortals. Rev. 20:10 But since he is a spirit being, he will not be destroyed by the flames (see Luke 20:36) Revelation 20:10 shows Satan himself is to be TORMENTED unto the ages of the ages--"FOREVER AND EVER"! His torment will last forever. But not this fire. It will last only as long as combustible material remains to be consumed. Satan's torment, however, will continue forever as a mental anguish resulting from seeing all that he has striven toward, worked for, plotted for, burned up as the earth is purified by fire!"(WCG, What is hell? Ambassador BCC, Lesson 6, 1977)
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Armstrong Refuted: |
Only H. W. Armstrong and splinter groups believe the devil will be tormented forever. |
One Neo-Sadducee refutes another: We are taking the unusual approach to let the Seventh-day Adventist church refute Armstrong. We agree with their comment.
- "it is impossible to visualize how the devil and his angels, who are spirits could "be tormented [with fire] day and night for ever and ever" (Rev 20:10). After all, fire belongs to the material, physical world, but the devil and his angels are not physical beings. Eldon Ladd rightly points out: "How a lake of literal fire can bring everlasting torture to non-physical beings is impossible to imagine. It is obvious that this is picturesque language describing a real fact in the spiritual world: the final and everlasting destruction of the forces of evil which have plagued men since the garden of Eden." (SDA, Samuele Bacchiocchi, ch 6, Hell: Eternal Torment Or Annihilation)
- Armstrong openly admitted that the devil being a spirit being, is different from men and must be tormented forever, "being as angels unable to die" they argue.
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H. W. Armstrong Refuted: How can Armstrong and splinter groups say that the Lake of Fire was designed specifically for the devil and his angels, then in reality, they are totally unaffected by it? Their eternal torment is not caused by the lake of fire, since they argue it goes out, but by mental anguish. The argument is so completely refuted, we have designated it a knock out punch! |
H. W. Armstrong Vs. H. W. Armstrong:
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Term |
applied to men Armstrong argues |
applied to devil Armstrong argues |
"Eternal fire" |
Mt 18:8; Jude 7 "will burn out" |
Mt 25:41 "will never burn out" |
"eternal punishment" |
Mt 25:46 punishment will stop |
Rev 20:10 "punishment will never stop" "eternal punishing" |
lake of fire (how can the lake of fire destroy flesh of men and spirit of devil in one place) |
men composed of only of flesh will be cast in |
devil composed only of spirit will be cast in but it will have no effect on the devil. |
smoke of hell |
Takes literally: "will one day be gone, invisible from the earth, like Sodom" Jude 7 |
Takes symbolically: "will always be visible" Rev 20:10 |
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Annihilation vs. Eternal conscious torment |
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"Once burnt - always burnt" or "eternal conscious punishment"? |
Annihilation |
Eternal conscious punishment |
The devil and his angels: Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. |
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Wicked men: Rev 14:10-11 he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." |
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Punishment that goes on forever! Mt 25:46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." |
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Hell is a place of darkness reserved, not annihilation Jude 13: "for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever" "outer Darkness" Lk 13:27 |
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Hell is banishment away from God's presence 2 Th 1:9 And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord |
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Hell is banishment away from God's presence "there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth there when you see Abraham in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being cast out." Mt 22:13 |
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Hell is banishment away from God's presence "outside are the dogs" Rev 22:15 |
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Annihilation vs. Eternal conscious torment |
False argument:
It is argued that Sodom experienced the "punishment of eternal fire" and the fire has been out for 5000 years! This verse is said to prove that hell is an annihilation.
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Jude 7 |
2 Pe 2:6 |
"Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire." |
"He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly thereafter" |
False argument refuted:
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Antitype |
Type |
Text |
Literal Incense |
Symbolic incense: Prayer |
Rev 5:8 |
Literal Candles |
Symbolic candles: Christians are light |
Rev 1:20 |
Literal Sanctuary |
Symbolic sanctuary: Our bodies |
1 Cor 6:19 |
Literal Instrumental music: Harp |
Symbolic music: heart strings |
Eph 5:19 |
Literal Priestly garments |
Symbolic garments: Clothed by our deeds |
Rev 19:8 |
Literal weekly Sabbath Day |
Symbolic Sabbath day: Eternal rest in heaven |
Heb 4 |
Sodom: Literal Fire and brimstone |
Symbolic fire: Hell |
Jude 7 |
So what happened to Sodom, is no more literal, than the Christian's priestly garments (good deeds) or his incense (prayer). To point to Sodom and argue that is what hell literally is, is as wrong as to point to incense and argue that is what prayer literally is. What is amazing is that Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians, Seventh-day Adventists, H. W. Armstrong all teach that the fire of hell is symbolic! This completely agrees with the truth of what Jude 7 is saying and refutes their view of annihilation. One minute they argue the fire is symbolic, then when they come to Jude 7 they argue, "see the fire is literal and it doesn't burn any more". Such flip flopping is the trade mark of false teachers that confuses their sorry disciples. |
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Annihilation vs. Eternal conscious torment |
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Heaven and Hell are same duration |
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Eternal/forever |
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Greek |
Used of heaven |
Used of hell |
aion |
Mt 25:46 but the righteous into life eternal. |
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aionios |
Lk 18:30 in the age to come, eternal life. |
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Annihilation vs. Eternal conscious torment |
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False Argument: |
"God will destroy both body and soul in hell." |
Refutation of Argument: |
Jesus used two different Greek words to describe what man does and what God will do in hell. Man can kill |
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Mt 10:28 |
Lk 15:4 |
Lk 15:8 |
"And do not fear those who kill (apokteino) the body, but are unable to kill (apokteino) the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy (apollumi) both soul and body in hell." |
"What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost (apollumi) one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture, and go after the one which is lost (apollumi), until he finds it? |
"Or what woman, if she has ten silver coins and loses (apollumi) one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and search carefully until she finds it?" |
APOKTEINO to kill |
apollumi |
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The sheep, coin and soul continue to exist even though lost! The fact that Jesus changed words in Mt 10:28, proves that there is a difference in what man can do to man and what God can do to man. |
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Mt 10:28 |
Lk 12:4-5 |
Man can kill the body |
"And do not fear those who kill (apokteino) the body, |
Lk 12:4-5 "And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill (apokteino) the body |
Man cannot kill the soul. Interesting, if hell is simply being thrown into a literal fire pit or dump, then why cannot man kill the soul. Why does God's act of throwing the same man into this same place destroy the soul? According to annihilationists, once man is killed, he ceases to exist. This proves that there is a conscious part of man that survives death. |
but are unable to kill (apokteino) the soul; |
and after that have no more that they can do. |
God too can kill the body like man |
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"But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who after He has killed (apokteino) |
After the man is dead can cast into hell after judgement at the end of time. Notice that casting into hell in Luke is equated with the different Greek (apollumi) word in Matthew |
but rather fear Him who is able to destroy (apollumi) both soul and body in hell." |
has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him! |
These two verses actually refute annihilation. |
Notice that Jesus uses one Greek word (apokteino) for what man can do and another Greek word (apollumi) for what God does at the end of time in hell. If the Greek words were the same, then annihilationists would have a possible argument. |
Notice that Luke 12 indicates that God can kill the body, then afterward cast into hell. Hell never means the grave. According to annihilationists, a man is destroyed 100% at death. This verse proves otherwise! |
The word destroy (apollumi) in Mt 10:28 doesn't mean annihilation or a ceasing of existence.
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Texts where (apollumi) is used: |
Comment |
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Matthew 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy (apollumi) both soul and body in hell. |
The Greek word, as proven below, does not mean annihilation, but a continuation of existence in a lost state or ruined state. |
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Mark 2:22 "And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wine will burst the skins, and the wine is lost (apollumi), and the skins as well; but one puts new wine into fresh wineskins." |
The wine, didn't cease to exist, it was simply spilt on the ground |
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Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost (apollumi) sheep of the house of Israel." |
The sheep that are "destroyed" or "lost" in fact represent the lost who walk the earth right now! They clearly exist! |
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Luke 15:4,6 "What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture, and go after the one which is lost (apollumi), until he finds it?" ... "And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost (apollumi)!' |
The sheep still existed even though "destroyed" (apollumi) |
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Luke 15:8-9 "Or what woman, if she has ten silver coins and loses (apollumi) one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and search carefully until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin which I had lost (apollumi)!" |
The coin still existed even though "destroyed" (apollumi) |
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Luke 15:24,32 for this son of mine was dead, and has come to life again; he was lost (apollumi), and has been found.' And they began to be merry." ... "But we had to be merry and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost (apollumi) and has been found." |
The son still existed even though "destroyed" (apollumi) |
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John 6:27 "Do not work for the food which perishes (apollumi), but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man shall give to you, for on Him the Father, even God, has set His seal." |
The food goes bad and is unusable, it doesn't cease to exist! |
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2 Co 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing (apollumi). |
Notice, like the lost sheep, the lost are perishing (lost) NOW. This is present tense! They certainty exist even though perished! |
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2 Thess 1:9 And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power (the word "apollumi" is NOT USED in 2 Thess 1:9) |
Although the word "apollumi" is NOT USED in this verse, notice that hell is explained as being "away from God's presence and glory". This proves that hell is a banishment not an annihilation. |
False argument refuted on Mt 10:28:
It is falsely argued by annihilationists, that in Mt 10:28 the word "apollumi" (Strongs #622) means to annihilate into non-existence because every other place this word is used in the TVM of #5658 (Tense - Aorist; Voice - Active; Mood - Infinitive) it means this. The truth is that we find most forms of the word used interchangeably. But remember they power of Mt 10:28 is that Jesus used two different words: Kill the body is all man can do, but destroy or "make lost" is what God does in Hell. Had Jesus used the same word in both instances, then annihilationists would have an argument because for them man can cause another man to cease to exist with a gun in the same way God can cause someone to cease to exist in Hell. But since two different words are used, our argument is powerful. Of course the most powerful argument we have is that only God can destroy the soul and man can only kill the body. The way annihilationists define man as a "mono-unit" of flesh alone, instead of a dichotomous combination of flesh and spirit like God, annihilationists simply cannot explain how man cannot kill the soul.
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Here are the instanced in the Bible where "apollumi" is used in the TVM of #5658: Apollumi #622 with TVM 5658 Aorist; Active; Infinitive: TO DESTROY
But the difference between moods is irrelevant: Being in a state of destruction is equal to taking actions to bring someone into that state of destruction. So to say, "has lost" or "lose" or "had lost" are identical concepts as far as what the word itself means. The argument is invalid and displays a dismal understanding of simple Greek. With the same kind of Christadelphian reasoning, we could conclude that TVM 5660 only means "lost" since it is only used three times and each time it means "lost". Notice, however, that in Luke 9:25, the word LOST to denotes the equivalent to hell. Apollumi #622 with TVM 5660 Aorist; Active; Participle: HAS LOST; LOSES
Yet we find both the Subjunctive and the Indicative mood forms of the word Apollumi using both LOST AND DESTROY. This proves the Christadelphian argument false. Apollumi #622 with TVM 5661 Aorist; Active; Subjunctive: LOSE; LOSES; DESTROY
Apollumi #622 with TVM 5656 Aorist; Active; Indicative: HAD LOST; DESTROYED
Here a couple of useful passages where the LXX uses the word:
TVM Notes: 5656 Mood - Indicative The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood. (from: Logos Library systems: TVM) 5658 Mood - Infinitive: The Greek infinitive mood in most cases corresponds to the English infinitive, which is basically the verb with "to" prefixed, as "to believe." Like the English infinitive, the Greek infinitive can be used like a noun phrase ("It is better to live than to die"), as well as to reflect purpose or result ("This was done to fulfil what the prophet said"). (from: Logos Library systems: TVM) 5660 Mood - Participle: The Greek participle corresponds for the most part to the English participle, reflecting "-ing" or "-ed" being suffixed to the basic verb form. The participle can be used either like a verb or a noun, as in English, and thus is often termed a "verbal noun.") (from: Logos Library systems: TVM) 5661 Mood - Subjunctive The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances. Conditional sentences of the third class ("ean" + the subjunctive) are all of this type, as well as many commands following conditional purpose clauses, such as those beginning with "hina." (from: Logos Library systems: TVM) |
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Annihilation vs. Eternal conscious torment |
- All Arians view that heaven is a physical restored paradise upon the earth. They have no concept of man's spiritual existence apart from the Gen 1:1 creation. Yet the Bible clearly teaches that the physical creation that occurred some 10,000 years ago in Gen 1:1, will be "uncreated" Just as the 103 (?) elements of the periodic table came into existence at creation, they will go into extinction at the second coming: 2 Pe 3:10. Our eternal reward is a spiritual existence in the spiritual presence of God in the realm He has always existed in before Gen 1:1.
The wicked will not be annihilated But the heaven and earth will be annihilated!
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W. E. Vine: LOU (3089) to loose, is used of the future demolition of the elements or heavenly bodies, 2 Pet. 3:10, 11, 12 |
2 Peter 3:6,9-12 "the world at that time was destroyed (Gr: apollumi), being flooded with water. ... The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish (Gr: apollumi) but for all to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed (Gr: LOU) with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. 11 Since all these things are to be destroyed (Gr: LOU) in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, on account of which the heavens will be destroyed (Gr: LOU) by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!" |
- This text provides a powerful argument for those who view the annihilation of men and the eternal continuity of the physical creation.
- Notice that 2 Pe 3 describes BOTH the "perishing (apollumi) of men" and "destruction (LOU) of creation".
- Two different words are used. Notice that "apollumi" is used to destruction of men and that LOU is used to describe the annihilation of the earth!
- But even better notice that the flood perished "apollumi" the earth in the time of Noah and a different Greek word is used for the annihilation "LOU" of the earth by fire!
- The conclusion is that "apollumi" describes not the annihilation, but "making lost" both men in hell and the earth at the Noaic flood and "LOU" describes the annihilation of the earth at the second coming!
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Annihilation vs. Eternal conscious torment |
Heaven & Hell Are Spiritual not physical
- Heaven is "not of this creation": Hebrews 9:11,24
- God's future kingdom is "not of this world or realm": John 18:36
- Physical universe will be destroyed: 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 20:11
- "Things seen are temporary, but things not seen are eternal": 2 Cor 4:18
- "The first things have passed away": Revelation 21:4
- Created things will be removed: Hebrews 12:25-27
- No longer any sea, night, sun or moon: Revelation 21:1,23; 22:5
- Heaven is in the very presence of the Father: John 13:36-14:6
- We hope to "enter within the veil" where God dwells: Heb 6:19-20;10:19-20
- We are earthbound guests with a heavenly destination: 1 Pe 1:17; Heb 13:14
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Annihilation vs. Eternal conscious torment |
Various other annihilation proof texts debunked:
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Psalm 37:19-22 They will not be ashamed in the time of evil; And in the days of famine they will have abundance. But the wicked will perish; And the enemies of the Lord will be like the glory of the pastures, They vanish—like smoke they vanish away. The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives. For those blessed by Him will inherit the land; But those cursed by Him will be cut off. |
This Psalm isn't talking about eternal rewards and punishments at all. Rather is speaking about life on earth right now. Notice the context: "And in the days of famine they [righteous] will have abundance ... yet the wicked vanish like smoke" This vanishing takes place before resurrection. Are Annihilationists prepared to deny that the wicked are even raised? (Only a few isolated Christadelphian splinter groups would argue that the wicked dead are not raised! But then they must deal with Acts 24:15, "there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." Neo-Sadduceeism is always full of contradictions with scripture wherever it turns!) |
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Malachi 4:1-3 "For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze," says the Lord of hosts, "so that it will leave them neither root nor branch." "But for you who fear My name the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall. "And you will tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing," says the Lord of hosts. |
This speaking of the time when Jesus would come. Notice v4 that Elijah (John the baptist) would come at the same time. It is not speaking of the final judgement. It also employs the same kind of word pictures typical of heaven and hell. This verse is no more literal than the imagery of Gehenna! |
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Annihilation vs. Eternal conscious torment |
Studies of words that annihilationists misuse to teach extinction:
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These words do not teach annihilation! "The annihilationists assemble a multitude of texts which in reality are either taken out of context or based on the false assumption that such words as 'perish' automatically and necessarily always mean annihilation." (Death and The Afterlife, Robert Morey, Dualist, p. 119- 120) |
destroy |
1. "Destroy": For example, in the Old Testament, the word ahvad is the word which is usually translated as "destroy." In Num. 21:29, the people of Chemosh were "undone" ("destroyed" in NIV). In the context, the meaning of ahvad is that the people were conquered and sold into slavery. They were not annihilated but enslaved. In 1 Sa. 9:3, 20, Saul's asses were ahvad, i.e., lost. These asses were not annihilated, but lost. In Psalms 31:12, an ahvad vessel is merely broken, not annihilated. In Hab. 1:15, the word Gah rar means to catch something in a net, not to annihilate it. Dah chah in Isa. 53:10 is translated, " It pleased the Lord to bruise him.". Here it refers to Christ's sufferings, not to nonexistence. In Hosea 4:6, God's people are "destroyed" for lack of knowledge. In the context, this cannot mean that they were nonexistent. The same can be pointed out in the case of hoom (Ps. 55:2) and ghah ram (Josh. 6:8; Mic. 4:13). In the Greek, apollumi is used to describe ruined wineskins, lost sheep, and spoiled food (Matt. 9:17; 15:24; John 6:27). Apolia in Mark 14:4 refers to wasted perfume. Diapthero refers to moth-eaten cloth in Luke 12:33 katheiresis to the pulling down of a fortress (2 Cor. 10:4) kataluo refers to lodging for the night (Luke 9:12) kataryco to a fig tree which "encumbered the ground" (Luke 13:7); luo refers to putting off one's shoes (Acts 7:33); portheo refers to persecuting the church in Gal. 1:13; phthiro refers to defiling the temple of God in 1 Cor. 3:17. The assumption that the words "destroy" and "destruction" automatically mean annihilation is not good English, much less good Hebrew or Greek. We can think of someone being "destroyed" or "wiped out" in an emotional sense without implying that the person has ceased to exist. ("Death and The Afterlife" by Robert Morey, p. 108-111)
2. "Perish" or "perished." In various forms the word "perish" appears 152 times in the KJV. In the Old Testament, there are 11 Hebrew words which are translated as "perish." The main word ahvad is the same word which is frequently translated as "destroy." We have already seen that it is erroneous to assume that ahvad means annihilation. Sha mad is found in Jer. 48:42 where Moab is said to be destroyed in the sense of the people being enslaved, not annihilated. Shah rhath is used of ruined girdles and vessels in Jer. 13:7; 18:4; kah rath is used of cutting a covenant or cutting timber to build the temple in Gen. 15:18; 1 Kings 5:6; eah vag. nah phal, and gah var are used to describe a miserable emotional state (Ps. 42:7; 55:4, 88:15,16). In the New Testament, there are ten different Greek words which are translated "perish." Some of these words such as apollumi were also translated as destroy and do not mean annihilation. Apothneesko is used in John 12:24 to describe the grain of wheat which when planted "dies" and then sprouts. Obviously, it cannot mean annihilation. Aphanrzo refers to things which moths and rust can "corrupt" (Matt. 6:19,20). Kataphthiro is used to describe "corrupt" minds in 2 Tim. 3:8 (KJV). Even in English we speak of fruit as "perishable" in the sense that it can spoil. Burned out light bulbs have "perished." In neither case is annihilation intended. ("Death and The Afterlife" by Robert Morey, p. 108-111)
3. "Consume" or "consumed.": Forms of these words appear in the KJV 162 times. In the Old Testament, 20 different Hebrew words are translated as "consume." The usual word, ah chal is also used in Ps. 78:45 where the psalmist says that the flies "devoured" or consumed the Egyptians. The psalmist surely means that the flies tormented them, not annihilated them. Jeremiah used another word, bah lah, in Lam. 3:4, saying that his flesh and skin were "made old," or consumed, i.e., he was consumed with grief, not annihilated. Kah lah is used in Ezek. 13:13 where hailstones "consumed" a wall, i.e., knocked it down, not annihilated it. Dah gach is the normal word for putting out a fire. When we "put out a candle," we do not annihilate the candle. Even in English we speak of people being consumed with "grief, greed or lust," yet we do not mean that the person has ceased to exist. We have demonstrated that the annihilationists are in error when they arbitrarily assume and then assert that such words as "perish" necessarily mean annihilation. Once this point is granted, one is no longer impressed by such works as Froom where hundreds of quotes from biblical and extra-biblical literature are given to prove conditionalism simply upon the erroneous assumption that the mere presence of such words in the text means that the authors believed in annihilationism. ("Death and The Afterlife" by Robert Morey, p. 108-111)
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Annihilation vs. Eternal conscious torment |
Introductory comment:
- To think that Christ was ignorant of what Gehenna meant to the common people of His day or to assume that He was mistaken in using the rabbinic descriptions of Gehenna is to do great injustice to Him who was the greatest teacher who ever lived. Indeed, the mere fact that Christ utilized the rabbinic language connected with Gehenna, such as "unquenchable fire" and "never- dying worms," demonstrates beyond all doubt to any reasonable person that he deliberately used the word Gehenna to impress upon his hearers that eternal punishment awaits the wicked after the resurrection. No other conclusion is possible.
- The greatest problem that Annihilationists face when examining the intertestamental (between the Old & New Testaments) literature, is that the doctrines of the existence of the soul after death and eternal punishing are often manifest, with no "introduction" as would be required by a "new teaching." The Annihilationist view is that between the Old and New Testaments, Platonic philosophy infiltrated true Bible doctrine and entirely new concepts were introduced to replace the old beliefs about the soul and punishment. Yet, strangely lacking are any evidences of controversy in this area of belief. The Annihilationist answer to that would be that there was evidence of a difference of belief in the intertestamental writings. But since they can produce no actual apologetic or actual conflict from the historical records, they must argue from the silence of some intertestamental writers, who may discuss the future of the righteous without mentioning the wicked. Sometimes, as in the case of Fudge's and the Adventist Froom's quoting from Tobit, where it says that the unrighteous shall cease from all the earth, they claim that that proves the writer did not believe in eternal punishing. That is indeed a poor argument.
Robert Morey, Dualist, comments:
- First, Gehenna is the place of judgement (Matt. 23:33). He even used the rabbinic expression, "the judgement of Gehenna" (Bab. Tal. ER126).
- Second, Gehenna is always placed at the end of the world after the resurrection (Matt. 5:22; 23:33). This was expounded by John in Rev. 20:1-15. This was also the rabbinic position (Mid. Gen. 159).
- Third, Gehenna is the place where the body as well as the soul is punished (Matt. 5:22; 10:28; Mark 9:43-48). The rabbis saw that the resurrection of the wicked was necessary in order for them to receive their full punishment in the body (Mid. Gen. 159; 211n4).
- Fourth, Gehenna was the place of conscious torment. When Christ used the phrases "unquenchable fire" and "never-dying worms" (Mark 9:47,48, author's paraphrase), He was utilizing biblical (Isa 66:24), apocryphal (Judith XVI:17), and talmudic (Mid. Gen. 214) images which all meant conscious suffering. The annihilationists have a counter argument at this point. They point out that, literally speaking, while the worms and the fire in a city dump may destroy a dead carcass, it cannot be said that the dead carcass feels any torment. Therefore, they conclude that Christ's language must be interpreted to mean that the wicked will be annihilated, not tormented. The problem with this interpretation is that it fails to take into account that when Christ spoke of Gehenna in such terms as "worms and fire," He was clearly using rabbinic phraseology. Thus, it is more crucial to discover how these words were understood in rabbinic literature than by pointing to modern city dumps. The intertestamental literature is clear that the Jews believed that the departed could feel what was happening to their dead body. Indeed, when the worms start gnawing on the body, "the worms are as painful to the dead as a needle in the flesh of the living" (Bab. Tal. Shah. 777,778). Since the "gnawing worms" clearly meant conscious torment in rabbinic thought, the annihilationist's argument is invalid due to their ignorance of the meaning of such rabbinic terminology. That Judith XVI:17 also teaches conscious torment is clear.
- Fifth, the wicked are cast into Gehenna and will remain there for all eternity (Matt. 5:29,30). In Gehenna, the wicked are "destroyed" (Matt. 10:28). That the word "destroyed" (apollumi) does not mean "to annihilate" or "to pass into nonexistence" is clear from the rabbinic meaning of the word, the lexicographical significance of the word, and the way the word is used in the New Testament. Thaver's Greek-English Lexicon defines apollumi as "to be delivered up to eternal misery" (p.36). Since Thayer himself was a Unitarian who did not believe in eternal punishment, his definition could only be the result of his knowledge of the meaning of his Greek word. There is no lexicographical evidence for the annihilationist's position that apollumi means "to annihilate" or "to pass into nonexistence." (Death and The Afterlife, Robert Morey, Dualist, p. 89, 90)