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To: Natural Law; RobbyS
"People say:Why didn’t Pope Pius excommunicated Hitler who, after all."

It would have been been superfluous. Hitler, by his own actions, had clearly excommunicated himself, latae sententiae.

Though the Scriptural purpose IS punitive and intended to cause repentance and reconciliation, in the case of blatant and grievous sin, the symbolic and personal purpose of PUBLIC Excommunication for people like Hitler, who engage in vile and evil actions is more for the benefit of others within the church than for that specific person. Even those outside of the Catholic Church would have benefited by such a public castigation. By failing to do this, Pope Pius wimped out and caused a scandal all its own in the aftermath. Here we are, sixty years later and it is STILL so.

39 posted on 10/24/2012 9:44:28 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

The pope who who he was dealing with, and not just Hitler. He was nuncio for 13 years in Munich, and for a time nuncio to Germany. The heart of this Germany was Prussia, historically Protestant and since unification, strongly anti-Roman. Renouncing Hitler at any time would have put the MINORITY of German Catholics who opposed him at risk, by dividing a Catholic community among whom Hitler was very popular. After the war started, and into 1942, Germany was winning the war in Europe. The defeats at Stalingrad and El Alaimein did not turn things around, but only stopped his momentum. The savage allied bombings did not break the will of the Germans but made their attachment to the regime that much stronger. Nazi propoganda was very effective, not only in Germany but everywhere in occupied Europe. Pivotal in this was the presence and the speeches of Goerbbels. Try reading his speeches sometimes. They are very powerful, especially as Hitler no longer addressed the nation but was devoted to the prosecution of the war, and was presented as so doing. Now try to understasnd how hard it would have been to pass on any papal denunciation of “Der Fuhrer,” Broadcasts were jammed. All information from without wss treated as suspect. If it were believed, even then the message would have rejected by many. I mean, if Americans Catholics will not listento papal denunciations of abortion, what makes you think tat even Germany Catholics would have put the Church before their country?


40 posted on 10/24/2012 10:32:45 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: boatbums
Though the Scriptural purpose IS punitive and intended to cause repentance and reconciliation, in the case of blatant and grievous sin, the symbolic and personal purpose of PUBLIC Excommunication for people like Hitler, who engage in vile and evil actions is more for the benefit of others within the church than for that specific person. Even those outside of the Catholic Church would have benefited by such a public castigation. By failing to do this, Pope Pius wimped out and caused a scandal all its own in the aftermath. Here we are, sixty years later and it is STILL so.

Well said, boatbums. Deuteronomy 21:1-9 tells us that God does not hold a community guilty for the immoral actions of an individual, if that community takes appropriate actions to separate themselves from said behavior (e.g. excommunication). The Catholic church has a Canon Law requiring the bishop to refuse communion to pro-abort politicians (Canon 915), but most bishops refuse to enforce the Canon against even the most egregious pro-death pols. What does Deuteronomy 28:15-66 say that God will do to the community that refuses to separate itself from the willfully immoral member?

44 posted on 10/24/2012 11:23:02 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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