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Happy Reformation Day
Esler.org ^ | October 31, 2012 | Ted

Posted on 10/31/2012 2:40:55 PM PDT by Alex Murphy

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To: Alex Murphy

Of course, there’s a lot of change happening. Next week the North-Western Evangelical Bible-Reformed branch of PresbyMennonCongregationalutherAdventipentecostathism is due to split into the Central-North-Western Evangelical Bible-Reformed branch of PresbyMennonCongregationalutherAdventipentecostathism and the Central-Southern-North-Western Evangelical Bible-Reformed branch of PresbyMennonCongregationalutherAdventipentecostathism, but this is good driven as there as a dispute in the Congregation on matters of doctrine, Bobama thought that he should be Preach-pasto-Prophet Elder on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and alternate Sundays while Michelle thought that she should be that — as she had yoga-pilates-kickboxing class on Thursdays.


21 posted on 11/01/2012 12:22:21 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Makana; Campion; Owl558; GraceG; Jacob Kell
Actually, Islam has had its reformer - "Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab", who in 1740 reformed Islam, attacking what he believed were movement away from the "original principles". So Wahhabism condemned priests, scholarship and said that Moslems should return to the islamic beliefs that:
  1. Human beings have no free will
  2. Allah controls everything and those who are not part of the "elect" are foreordained to damnation
  3. That salvation to the levels of heaven are limited to those predestined to salvation by being part of the elect, the "ummah"
  4. That Allah's will is irresistible
  5. that those chosen will stay true to the faith -- otherwise they die

Wahab went against the 1000 year agreed interpretation of the Koran, stating that folks should be "sola scriptura" -- in the Islamic sense, only the Koran, ignoring the centuries of beliefs and consensus of centuries

This reforming movement by the Wahabbis is spreading thanks to the "Wahabbi work ethic or rather Saudi money ethic" through the Taliban, Pakistan, etc.

The aim, as you see among the Taliban etc. is to return to the "Early Moslems" -- of course Luther, coming from orthodoxy was no where in personality comparable to Wahabb, but note -- your question was about refroming in Islam and that's already happenned.

22 posted on 11/01/2012 12:45:25 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Ciexyz

Not sure, but it’s a Caravaggio. Caravaggio is incredibly fantastic


23 posted on 11/01/2012 12:49:29 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Ciexyz
Not sure, but it's a Caravaggio. Caravaggio is incredibly fantastic

Exquisite.

I remember seeing this at the Uffizi or in the Churches in Rome. Exquisite

24 posted on 11/01/2012 12:53:38 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: BipolarBob
There is an excellent post by HapaxLegamenon


To: Alex Murphy
To my Protestant brothers: Do you agree with the following theses that Luther nailed to the Church door:

The pope has neither the will nor the power to remit any penalties beyond those imposed either at his own discretion or by canon law.

The pope himself cannot remit guilt, but only declare and confirm that it has been remitted by God; or, at most, he can remit it in cases reserved to his discretion. Except for these cases, the guilt remains untouched.

God never remits guilt to anyone without, at the same time, making him humbly submissive to the priest, His representative.

Accordingly, the Holy Spirit, acting in the person of the pope, manifests grace to us, by the fact that the papal regulations always cease to apply at death, or in any hard case. It is a wrongful act, due to ignorance, when priests retain the canonical penalties on the dead in purgatory.

Defective piety or love in a dying person is necessarily accompanied by great fear, which is greatest where the piety or love is least. This fear or horror is sufficient in itself, whatever else might be said, to constitute the pain of purgatory, since it approaches very closely to the horror of despair. There seems to be the same difference between hell, purgatory, and heaven as between despair, uncertainty, and assurance.

Of a truth, the pains of souls in purgatory ought to be abated, and charity ought to be proportionately increased.

The same power as the pope exercises in general over purgatory is exercised in particular by every single bishop in his bishopric and priest in his parish.

The pope does excellently when he grants remission to the souls in purgatory on account of intercessions made on their behalf.

Yet the pope's remission and dispensation are in no way to be despised, for, as already said, they proclaim the divine remission.

Papal indulgences should only be preached with caution.

Christians should be taught that they purchase indulgences voluntarily, and are not under obligation to do so.

Christians should be taught that the pope's indulgences are useful only if one does not rely on them, but most harmful if one loses the fear of God through them.

The treasures of the church, out of which the pope dispenses indulgences, are not sufficiently spoken of or known among the people of Christ.

That these treasures are not temporal are clear from the fact that many of the merchants do not grant them freely, but only collect them.

Nor are they the merits of Christ and the saints, because, even apart from the pope, these merits are always working grace in the inner man, and working the cross, death, and hell in the outer man.

On the other hand, the treasure of indulgences is most acceptable, for it makes the last to be the first.

Bishops and curates, in duty bound, must receive the commissaries of the papal indulgences with all reverence. But they are under a much greater obligation to watch closely and attend carefully lest these men preach their own fancies instead of what the pope commissioned.

Let him be anathema and accursed who denies the apostolic character of the indulgences.

If therefore, indulgences were preached in accordance with the spirit and mind of the pope, all these difficulties would be easily overcome, and indeed, cease to exist.

Christians should be exhorted to be zealous to follow Christ, their Head, through penalties, deaths, and hells. And let them thus be more confident of entering heaven through many tribulations rather than through a false assurance of peace

These are just some of the 95 theses. All of the above is Catholic Doctrine. Do Protestants celebrating this day agree with them???

6 posted on 10/31/2012 7:32:54 PM PDT by HapaxLegamenon

25 posted on 11/01/2012 1:02:10 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: stayathomemom

Please, do expand the bolded part. I am interested.


26 posted on 11/01/2012 6:26:08 AM PDT by firebasecody (Orthodoxy, proclaiming the Truth since AD 33)
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To: firebasecody
I had never heard the term 'consubstantiation' before. I checked the definition which stated that it was the belief that the bread and wine were there physically and the body and blood were there spiritually. The Lutheran belief is that the bread and wine are there physically as well as the body and blood. Although we can only see the bread and wine, we believe that it is the body and blood because Christ said, "This is my body, this is my blood."
If you read the short wikipoedia articles on Consubstantiation, Sacrimental Union, and Real Presence, it may clarify this.
27 posted on 11/01/2012 9:13:25 AM PDT by stayathomemom (Beware of kittens modifying your posts.)
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To: stayathomemom

Well, the more I read, the more confused. Clearly Christ said the words.I like to leave it as one of the mysteries of the Church. I get less head spin that way.


28 posted on 11/01/2012 3:00:58 PM PDT by firebasecody (Orthodoxy, proclaiming the Truth since AD 33)
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To: firebasecody

I guess there are some things that we humans cannot wrap our heads around. One of those being how something that is obviously bread and wine can also be the body and blood of Christ in more than just a spiritual way, or because we believe it is or don’t believe it is.


29 posted on 11/01/2012 3:41:30 PM PDT by stayathomemom (Beware of kittens modifying your posts.)
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