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To: marshmallow; Lera
As if that has anything to do with Ravasi's words and the isssue raised. What sort of logic is this? Catholics are being killed in Gaza "all the time"..... the Israelis are actually helping Catholics by killing Palestinians... therefore Ravasi had no business mentioning the pain of mothers, including Palestinian mothers, who lose their children....therefore the Vatican must be supporting Hamas....therefore the headline at the top of this story is correct... Would that be an accurate summary of both of your positions?

No, and if the numerous comments I have posted on this thread so far have not convinced you of that, nothing will. What is clear to see for those objective enough, that is, is that the Vatican IS and has been playing favorites in the Israel/Palestinian dispute. Maybe it is because some Palestinians are Christians, maybe because there is a historical bias against the Jewish people, but it is not by a long shot equitable or fair. The unfortunate comments of this Cardinal only contribute to this sense and, although I do not share the hatred of the author towards Catholics and other Christians, I can sympathize somewhat. It is not as if the Vatican can be counted upon to always do the right thing.

It is no secret that the Vatican has supported the statehood aspirations of the Palestinian Authority before the United Nations. That their demands and expectations include that Israel relinquish the West Bank, Gaza Strip AND East Jerusalem - which Israel took back after the 1967 war and who also hold that all of Jerusalem belongs as the capitol of Israel - seems to hold no weight whatsoever. I agree with Lera that Almighty God will hold those responsible for Israel's destruction to account.

I don't have a fan club and I don't plan on starting one. I long ago ceased worrying about popularity. I'm Catholic and I defend the Catholic Church from lies. Attack it and there will be a response. Count on it.

As is your every right. Just be sure that what you respond to so fiercely actually IS a lie before you draw your sword. Those who make up the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church are not the lily white, pure as the driven snow, standard bearers some would like the world to think. That many have and will continue to do and say wrong things is to be expected. Bringing such to the notice of others is a step towards correction and works much better than sweeping it under the rug and pretending every criticism is a "lie". Those of us who have come out of Catholicism have every right AND duty - just as you assert you have - to speak as God leads us to so that the truth of the Gospel is preached to the glory of God.

305 posted on 11/25/2012 2:58:53 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
"Those of us who have come out of Catholicism have every right AND duty - just as you assert you have - to speak as God leads us to so that the truth of the Gospel is preached to the glory of God."

Just be sure that what is asserted really IS being lead by the Holy Spirit, because if one denies the Church the ability to speak the truth of the Gospel there is no assurance that any other person has that ability either. The chances are even less when one gets nearly everything wrong about the doctrines of the Church.

306 posted on 11/25/2012 3:40:25 PM PST by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: boatbums
". . . to speak as God leads us to so that the truth of the Gospel is preached to the glory of God. "

Were such folks glorifying God when they preached that all contraception was a sin, or were they wrong then and glorifying God now that they preach the exact opposite?

308 posted on 11/25/2012 3:53:17 PM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: boatbums
Those of us who have come out of Catholicism have every right AND duty - just as you assert you have -...

Ahhhh....the missing link in your posts for which I was grasping. That helps me a lot.

Thanks.

The Vatican's stance regarding the tinderbox in the Middle East is indeed worthy of discussion but my aims on this thread were rather more limited and specific; i.e. to show that this article was a cheap hit piece without getting into the wider question.

Since you raise it, however, you can be sure that the fate of Christians in the Middle East is extremely important to the Vatican. Not too many people care about this; neither the secularists in the West, nor the Muslims and while Israel generally tolerates their presence, I doubt they'd shed too many tears if Christians disappeared. With this in mind, the Vatican is painfully aware that any violence in the Middle East usually results in Christians being the suffering innocents caught in the crossfire and this is certainly an overriding concern.

Who speaks for them, if not the Vatican?

My concluding remarks on this thread are that you should factor this in when considering any official Vatican pronouncement on the Middle East. To repeat a point I made up thread, this was undoubtedly a major consideration for Pope John Paul II when he warned us to stay out of Iraq. His good intentions were completely misinterpreted, however, and he was accused of being in bed with Saddam.

Things aren't always what they appear on the superficial, Freeper level.

329 posted on 11/26/2012 8:02:36 AM PST by marshmallow (.)
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