Posted on 11/28/2012 7:01:52 AM PST by CHRISTIAN DIARIST
It is the issue. I have read, over the years, parts of the bible and I don’t claim ignorance of the text I just don’t believe it.
OK, I accept that. It was not my intention to offend you by sounding like "Ha, ha, I know more about this. Boy are you dumb!" I know sometimes my posts sound brusque, but my concern her was to try to answer, the best way I know how, the question or issue you posed. I believe your question was sincere, not just testing for theological inconsistencies. I hope The Lord permitted me to at least give a glimmer of explanation of why Job is in the Bible, and what you can gain from it.
Others in this thread also gave some hints, of the same nature. This book is one of grand scope and deep spiritual meaning. However, it is not likely to be easily grasped without Godly guidance, and not at all on a merely logical basis, in my opinion and experience. I hope you will pursue looking further into it.
If you have walked through the valley of the shadow of death, as I and others here have, you will probably come to appreciate more and more of the development of Job in his painful spiritual journey with The God who cares for him and is continually by Job's side to guarantee His trustworthiness.
I pray that the words of The God will produce the gift of credibility of His existence and the truthfulness of His Word to you.
With respect --
We all have our own valleys to walk through, some more than others.
Yes; and considering the subject of this article, where is the hypothetical practicing, unrepentant "porn star" (he/she) liable to end up?
"Be not righteous over-much; neither make thyself over-wise:
why shouldest thou destroy thyself?
Be not over-much wicked; neither be thou foolish:
why shouldest die before thy time?
It is good that thou shouldest take hold of this; yea, also from this withdraw not thy hand:
he that feareth God shall come forth of these."
(Ecclesiastes 7:16-18)
from wise Solomon
Yes; and considering the subject of this article, where is the hypothetical practicing, unrepentant "porn star" (he/she) liable to end up?
"Be not righteous over-much; neither make thyself over-wise:
why shouldest thou destroy thyself?
Be not over-much wicked; neither be thou foolish:
why shouldest die before thy time?
It is good that thou shouldest take hold of this; yea, also from this withdraw not thy hand:
he that feareth God shall come forth of these."
(Ecclesiastes 7:16-18)
from wise Solomon
Dead, like the rest of us.
What if this is not the case, and God's communication in His Bible is right? The Bible proposes that there are three kinds of life, and three kinds of death.
- Physical life is union of one's soul and spirit with one's body.
- Spiritual life is union of one's soul and spirit with The God.
- Eternal life is the never-ending re-union of one's soul and spirit with a resurrected body that shall never die again, in union with The God forever in a sphere called Heaven, the Paradise of The God.
- Physical death is the separation of the soul and spirit of a human from the body.
- Spiritual death is the separation of a human's soul and spirit from The God.
- Eternal death is the re-union of a human's soul and spirit with a resurrected body, to be forever separated from The God, abiding in a sphere called "the lake of fire," where the Devil and his angels will also be, to be tormented and in unrelieved agony ever after, without end.
According to God speaking through His prophets, every human is, at birth, spiritually dead because of the curse of Adam's sin which is placed on every molecule of the extension of his flesh, which is -- each of us.
The presence of Sin as a Master, and thus an inescapable propensity of our Sin-obedient nature to engage in committing sinful activity, places us beyond response to The God's desire for us.
Adam was originally in close, pleasurable communication and unity with his Creator, and that closeness is attainable to each of us; but only through the removal of the Adam-humanly insuperable proclivity to commit sins, by the cleansing power of the application of the Blood of The Perfect Sacrificed Lamb, Jesus Christ, to the blackness of our hearts to remove Sin (persistently commit trust in Him - Jn. 6:47); and by eating of His Flesh (hear/read/internalize/digest the Words of The God - Mt. 4:4, Jn. 6:54). When we are thus cleansed and purified, we can approach and communicate with The God, as Adam did before his fall. We can also obey Him, which we could not do when Sin and our sins blocked the way.
Or we can refuse, remain spiritually dead and disobedient, and choose Eternal Death as our outcome.
Regarding the hypothetical "porn star" discussed in this article, one so engaged unrepentantly in the occupation of a whore, and more so by exposing that behavior to the eyes and ears of the watching world for love and/or money of it, is a blatant whore, with whom The God says He will have no fellowship nor with her partner, and who cannot possibly claim or be thought by any Bible-believer to be called "Christian."
Why? Because Jesus came not to condemn the world (for it was already under The God's condemnation), but that those of the world through Him might trust in His authority, be saved, and cast away the cords of Sin.
Any one who does not believe what I have just written, is just as surely condemned toward Hell as that hypothetical "porn star," though she were a church member, or even claiming to be a "Christan minister/prophet." (Rev. 2:20-24).
So, the Bible says your body may cease of living, but your soul and spirit, your conscious existence, will never die. What will you do with this? Though The God already knows, you have a choice. Right now you are riding on the hyphen between "pre" and "destination." What will you choose?
I know the body will be dead, after that, I do not KNOW. While many have beliefs about what happens or may happen after death, I honestly do not believe that anyone KNOWS.
Jesus did, and was resurrected, came back and taught his disciples, above 500 of them. Seeing Him, they totally believed in Him, unto and in spite of physical persecution and death. That was recorded in the four Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles. No effective contrary history has ever been published.
But more so, many people's lives have been incredibly changed through having a new spiritual being born in this old shell. The experience of new birth comes through believing, and no one to which this has happened have ever gone back. The comes through the entering of belief and new life into a person, as something sprouting from the generative seed planted through oral preaching and teaching. Described by the beloved John:
"Whosoever is born of The God doth not commit sin, for His Seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of The God." (1 John 3:9)
It is helpful to break this down grammatically to remove the ambiguosity of the English as translated:
Whosoever (the person referred to as 'born anew')
is born (perfect tense, passive, the new, spiritual birth has happened, he/she is begotten = Gk gennaoh, once for all time with continuing results so that it never can be repeated, any more than the birth in the flesh can be recapitulated)
of (Gk preposition 'ek' = from, out of)
The (definite article, Gk genitive 'tou' = of The)
God (Gk is articular, but 'The' is left out of the KJV by making 'god' a proper noun, and thus particular, adding 'The' makes it honorific)
not (Gk 'ou', negative)
doth ... commit (Gk poiehoh = does, present tense, persistently commits as a regular customary practice)
sin (Gk noun 'hamarta', anarthrous, does not have the character of sinfulness to practice iniquity as a customary and unrestrained habit)
for (because, Gk 'hoti')
His (the referent here is The God, not the reborn male or female human, I've capitalized it to emphasize that it refers to Him, The God)
seed (generative seed Gk sperma, literally the life-bearing gamete from which a new individual of the flesh springs, but used here in the figurative-literal sense, as representing the life-giving inspired spoken and/or written Word of The God)
remaineth (present tense, persistently, continually resides)
in (Gk preposition 'en', means 'in' or inside as translated here)
him (the referent here is the reborn individual discussed here)
and (and, Gk conjunctive 'kai')
not (again the negative Gk 'ou')
can (present tense, middle deponent - Gk dunamai, to be able, to have the power by virtue of one's ability, resources, determination, favorable circumstances, or external persuasion by tradition, law, or seduction by 'friends' or the Devil; and on a persistent, continuous basis)
sin (sin as a verb, Gk hamartanoh, present tense, active voice, persistently or repeatedly continue sinning as a usual behavior)
because (again Gk 'hoti' = because or since)
he (the referent again is the reborn individual, he/she)
is born (perfect tense, passive, is born/begotten)
of (Gk preposition 'ek', from. out of)
The God (God is again here articular, and hence very particular with respect to The Almighty God)
Thus, a fuller interpretation of this passage gives the practical sense as follows:
A (spiritually) begotten one of The God's substance does not persistently act out of an inward sinful character, because God's "spiritual gamete," His spoken or written Word, and body of saving doctrine, continually resides and abides in the born-again one; and he/she does not possess the power under any circumstances to perniciously ptefer, pursue, perform, and profit from sinful activities, because he/she is spiritually a new creature begotten of/from/out of the substance of The God as embodied in The Words of The God. Sinfulness will not be his/her new nature and character.
If you run into someone who claims to be a "Christian," but who displays a continual adherence to the habits of the old sinful man, do not necessarily condemn him/her (that is The Righteous God's purview), but you must treat him/her in love as though he/she is not regenerated, lest you be found not warning and winning a soul in danger of The God's fiery wrath for refusing His plan of salvation.
Now, stuarter, the above is true, but you can only verify it absolutely if and when you have chosen to place complete, irrevocable trust in the person, passion, and promises of Jesus, The Anointed One of The God, and King of Kings and Lord of Lords, as your Friend and Savior, as He presents Himself in His revelation the Book of Books; and His Presence in you brings dramatic changes to your desire to follow and obey Him. Neh?
What do you think of His offer?
Well, when that leap of faith hits me, and verifies that what you have written is indeed the truth, I’ll let you know. In the meantime, I’ll just keep going along with what God has in store for me. Thanks
OK, it's a free county, they say. Your choice. As you say, if there's any change, let me know --
Ciao --
I suspect that the god you are invoking is possibly not The God of The Holy Bible, because here's what His Son, the only one begotten in the flesh said privately to His special disciples concerning the multitude of people who had just been listening to His preaching on the Kingdom of Heaven:
"Because it is given* unto you to know** the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath,
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith 'By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
for this people's heart is waxed gross. and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.'
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
For verily I say unto you, 'That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear which ye hear, and have not heard them.'
Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower."
(Mt. 13:11b-18; see Is. 6:9-10, Mk 4:11-12, Lk. 8:10)
* given -- This is an act of special revelation for them and for believers yet to come.
** know -- Gk ginoskoh, to gain an understanding, to perceive
This indicates that those without faith shall not perceive or understand what The God tells them, even directly from His mouth in special revelation, their spirit being dead to Him. But about the "leap of faith" which you dismiss as not of import, His Spirit says concerning faith to the Hebrews through the writer:
"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because The God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased The God.
But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to The God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."
(Heb. 11:5-6; see Rom. 3:10-11, Ps. 14:1-3, Ps. 53:1-4)
Only those who have taken the small step (not a leap) to trust in the Lord Jesus Anointed/Messiach/Christ and consign his/her life and future to Him can please The God, for only such commitment can give one ears that hear and understand, and eyes that see and perceive the things that The God has offered in exchange for one's fealty.
You statement seems to indicate that you have not taken this step. Is that so? Without exercising faith in The Messiach, as Enoch did, the future of what The God seems to have in store for you seems to look kind of grim -- IMHO
Making this observation with regret --
I believe there is only one God.
I believe there is only one God.
Ah, you are ... there.
(1) Does the god of whom you speak communicate?
(2) and if so, does he communicate to you?
(3) and if so, how does he communicate to you?
(4) and if that is so, does he communicate truth?
[Remembering that the Bible says there is a god of this world system, and he deceives those who do not exercise faith in The God (2 Cor. 4:4), and hurts those who love and trust in and serve The God (Job 1:7-8)]
(1)Yes
(2)yes
(3)don’t know how to explain, maybe self-evidence? How does it work with you?
(4)without using the bible as a reference, how would this be determined and would you believe it?
liberals and leftists live to tell lies
they worship the father of lies
I think we know who that is
(1)
Q. Does the god of whom you speak communicate?
A. Yes
Challenge: Prove it with evidence (source, object, general method)
(2) and if so,
Q, does he communicate to you?
A. yes
Challenge: Prove it with evidence not involving belief
(3) and if so,
Q. how does he communicate to you?
A. don’t know how to explain, ...
Observation: Does not validate the previous answers
Explanation: ... maybe self-evidence? (answering a question with another question is not an answer)
My challenge to you: possible, but give an(some) example(s)
Your Q.: How does it work with you?
My A.: God is not silent to me.
By faith, He speaks to my mind and spirit (a) through His creation, (b) through written words of His detailed Bible giving His thoughts, (c) through spoken words of other disciples who interpret His Word and His words using a literal-historical-grammatical hermeneutic, (d) by observed circumstances which illustrate the truths of His Word, and (e) by the outworking of decisions based on Scriptural and/or non-verbal prescience/intuition which proves being moved by the Holy Ghost to correctly respond to His promptings.
(4) and if that is so,
Q.: does he communicate truth?
A.: (again, no answer)
Your Q.: without using the bible as a reference, how would this be determined and would you believe it?
A: I cannot answer this question be cause it is (a) too ambiguous and (b) does not identify what "this" is, and what "to be determined" is.
I have tried to cast the interplay between yourself and myself in the Q & A form, to make the communicate more definite. The reason is that in reviewing your previous comments in this thread, the responders have not been able to provoke a logical sequence of reasoning with you. I have tried to respond to your questions with straightforward answers, then with questions that ought to evoke responses that answer your questions. Neither mode has worked. In saying this, I am not criticizing, just making an observation. For this to continue, you need to give some straight stepwise reasonableanswers. Otherwise, we would just be playing a hide-and-seek game, for which I simply do not want to continue, which would be unprofitable, wasting your time and mine.
Sorry --
Obviously, I have no answers that you consider logical.
(1) no proof, just faith
(2) no proof, just faith
(3) thanks for clarifying it for me...By faith, He speaks to my mind and spirit somehow.
(4) yes, I agree
My faith requires no proof, therefore, I have none to offer you.
This is slightly baffling, because you have numbered comments which are so terse that there is no definition of what you are referring to. You may understand what you wrote here, but I do not. So they are not communicating your opinion connected to any proposition. Would you mind demystifying this?
On the other hand, in your responses (Posts *82, #94, #101) you have indicated that though you have read at least parts of the Bible, you do not believe in the text of the Bible. Why not?
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