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What the Pope Really Said About Christmas
First Things ^ | November 30, 2012 | Kevin M. Clarke

Posted on 11/30/2012 3:00:48 PM PST by NYer

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To: NYer

Did Pope mention that there were no wise men, either? The wise men showed up at Jesus’ home (not a manger) when Jesus was a child (not a baby), about 2 years old. Their trip following the star from Point A to Point B would’ve taken about two years.


21 posted on 12/01/2012 5:59:26 AM PST by MayflowerMadam
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To: UriÂ’el-2012
You're starting from the assumption that Jesus was born during Tabernacles, and then working backwards to prove it.

This study argues (IMO quite persuasively) that the whole sequence of events began at Tabernacles, which would make December 25, 5 BC, a plausible date for the Nativity.

Oh, and BTW, Zechariah was not High Priest. We have the list of High Priests from that time, and his name isn't on it.

22 posted on 12/01/2012 6:02:43 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
that is the day i was saved.(sic) You won't know that until your particular judgment, just as Scripture teaches.

Per what religion? Either Christ died for my sins or he didn't - and, since I repented of my sins and accepted Him as my Savior, either I am saved or He and Scripture cannot be believed. I have faith that He has opened His arms and God's promise from the Old Covenant, about the New Covenant are also lies:

From Jeremiah 31
31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to[d] them,[e]” declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the Lord. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”

I realize it specifies Israel, but we are told in the New Testament that all fall under the cleansing shedding of Jesus' Blood.

23 posted on 12/01/2012 7:39:22 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: GeronL

I was under the impression that the Romans collected taxes anytime.


24 posted on 12/01/2012 7:54:06 AM PST by Varda
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To: verga

Has it been established that there was a temple flock year round? The established practice in that area was to move the flocks from pasture to pasture in nomadic fashion. Given that there were buyers and sellers (according to one of my theology professors in the gallery of the gentiles) it appears that the animals used for sacrifices weren’t kept by the temple but were brought there by merchants who sold them to individuals following the law.


25 posted on 12/01/2012 8:01:52 AM PST by Varda
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To: NYer

http://www.wnd.com/2009/12/119886/


26 posted on 12/01/2012 9:57:55 AM PST by ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton (Go Egypt on 0bama)
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To: Varda

It was a census, not a normal tax.


27 posted on 12/01/2012 10:41:48 AM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Varda
it appears that the animals used for sacrifices weren’t kept by the temple but were brought there by merchants who sold them to individuals following the law.

the shepherds were part of the lowest memebers of society. the merchants were somewhat higher. It would make sense that the merchants hired them to tend those same flocks.

28 posted on 12/01/2012 12:50:42 PM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: trebb
(Matt 7:21) Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
29 posted on 12/01/2012 1:07:41 PM PST by mtg
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To: verga

Traditionally flocks were owned by a family and the job of shepherd was given to a family member but what you say is possible. However, it doesn’t follow that the flocks were there year round in an area doesn’t support year round grazing.


30 posted on 12/01/2012 3:08:28 PM PST by Varda
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To: Campion
You're starting from the assumption that Jesus was born during Tabernacles, and then working backwards to prove it.
This study argues (IMO quite persuasively) that the whole sequence of events began at Tabernacles, which would make December 25, 5 BC, a plausible date for the Nativity.

Oh, and BTW, Zechariah was not High Priest. We have the list of High Priests from that time, and his name isn't on it.

Zacharias was not THE HIGH PRIEST, but

Zacharias served as a high priest

Luke 1:9 according to the custom of the priestly office,
he was chosen by lot to enter the temple of the Lord and burn incense.
I start by reading John 1:14 under the illumination of the Ru'ach HaKodesh.
John 1:14 And the WORD became flesh,
and [fn]dwelt among us,
and we saw His glory,
glory as of the only begotten from the Father,
full of grace and truth.

[fn](1:14) Or, tabernacled; i.e. lived temporarily

σκηνόω Strong's G4637 - skēnoō
1) to fix one's tabernacle,
have one's tabernacle,
abide (or live) in a tabernacle (or tent),
tabernacle
2) to dwell
The word for Tabernacle, mishkan, is a derivative of the
same root and is used in the sense of dwelling-place in the Bible

The verse also provides illumination as to
Yah'shua being the Shekhinah glory.

Shekhinah means the dwelling or settling, and denotes the dwelling
or settling of the divine presence of God, especially in the Temple in Jerusalem.

And now to your offered citation.
Excerpt from: Kenneth F. Doig, New Testament Chronology,

The first word of the article raises red flags "John Chrysostom"

John Chrysostom was a rabid anti-semite and thus someone
who would have hated Yah'shua the JEWISH MESSIAH
and coming King on the throne of David in Jerusalem.

The rest of the article is a masterful display of Eisegesis
ju-jitsu from many extra-scriptural sources.

Here is a very visual source:
Jesus' date of birth

Just based on scripture.

Again the first clue to the birth of Yah'shua is John 1:14 as cited above.

OBTW Important events in the life of Yah'shua occurred
on YHvH commanded Feast days as metaphors of the feast.

Conceived as the light entering the temple (John 10:22 / John 8:12)
Born on the Feast of Tabernacles.(John 1:14)
Circumcised on the Feast of Simchat Torah ( Joy of the WORD)
Bread and wine of the Pesach.
Death as the Lamb of G-d on Hag Matzoh.
Rising on the Feast of First Fruits.
Sending the Ru'ach HaKodesh on the Feast of Shavuot(Pentecost).

Who knows if the final trump will occur on the Feast of Trumpets

Seek YHvH in His WORD.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

Hope you had a peaceful Shabbat

31 posted on 12/01/2012 5:05:14 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: mtg
Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Perhaps you're confusing a combination of things. While Jesus walked the earth, we were still under the Old Covenant. Just crying out to the Lord is not the same as repenting of your sins and accepting Jesus as your Savior. Jesus was the only Man to walk the Earth that could "do God's will as far as conforming to the Commandments, else (once again) there was no reason for Him to die for our sins.

32 posted on 12/02/2012 4:32:17 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: trebb
Just crying out to the Lord is not the same as repenting of your sins and accepting Jesus as your Savior.

Then how is it that some were told by Jesus that they were saved, even before He died for their sins and they had the chance of accepting Him as their Savior?

33 posted on 12/02/2012 8:25:00 PM PST by mtg
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To: mtg; trebb
t>Just crying out to the Lord is not the same as repenting of your sins and accepting Jesus as your Savior.

Then how is it that some were told by Jesus that they were saved, even before He died for their sins and they had the chance of accepting Him as their Savior?

Call on the NAME of YHvH for salvation.

In the hebrew scriptures YHvH exists
where the word LORD is used in translation.

Yah'shua (Jesus) NAME in Hebrew
means "YHvH is/be my salvation".

See: 1 Ki. 18:24; 2 Ki. 5:11; Isa. 12:4; 44:5; 48:2; Zeph. 3:9; Zech. 13:9; Rom. 10:13; 1 Co. 1:2

Also see: Joel 2:32 & Acts 2:21 specifically.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
34 posted on 12/03/2012 9:24:03 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: GeronL

Jesus was probably born in the summer. >>

that would hurt the retail industry. Jesus was born during the census, whenever that was.


35 posted on 12/29/2012 7:34:56 PM PST by Coleus
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