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To: Petrosius
Mary's consent never entered into it:

...thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son...

Not conditioned by, "if that's OK with you."

And lest Catholic apologist try to accuse me of condoning rape, keep in mind that many of God's chosen vessels were unwilling, even intractable, regarding his will for them:
- Moses
- Jonah
- Simon Peter
- Thomas

And yet he still insisted on His way.

Mary's response was one of subservience to the will of God; it was incidental to His will.

53 posted on 12/09/2012 5:14:42 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: fwdude

Mary’s consent was given, as was that Moses, Peters, etc. after their protests, and she could have refused, yet the issue is that this does not render her the saint on steroids Catholics make her to be as compared to those whom the Holy Spirit testified far more of (even in the gospels Mary is quite marginal).

Mary is an example of a holy and surrendered vessel of God in carrying and caring for the Word made flesh, and blessed by being so chosen, but which did not require her to be sinless anymore than it was necessary for those to be who brought forth the wholly inspired Words of God, or the nation of Israel, “of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came.” (Rm. 9:5)

And the error is in exalting Mary “above that which is written,” (cf. 1Cor. 4:6)

Mary is not shown and laboring day and night for years in the care of all the churches, and suffering great persecution as she did so, or constantly feeding the church with her words, or even being a worker of many miracles and being an instrument of healing for many.

Instead, the most preeminent example of this, after the Lord Jesus, is the apostle Paul, who is relatively marginalized by Rome behind Mary and others.

Considering the unwarranted excess of attributions given to Mary by Catholics wresting Scripture, one can only imagine what more they would do if even 10% of the manifestations of the above attributes was given to Mary.


55 posted on 12/09/2012 5:52:49 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: fwdude

“...Mary’s consent never entered into it...”

Mary had free will, just as we all do, just as Eve did. God created us with free will because he was not interested in robots. Mary is our second chance - Eve could have said no to Satan, Mary could have said no to God - Jesus’ conception was not a rape.

Mary’s freely chosen consent made the incarnation possible. That is the main reason why we Catholics love her - for not saying no!! Also loving Mary is not worshipping her, and it doesn’t take away from our love for her son - it adds depth. For example does loving our grandson somehow take away our love for his mother? Of course, not, it creates MORE love. Loving Jesus’ mother does not take away from our love for him, love is not finite, and Jesus’ wants us to love his mother. (John 19 25-27)


64 posted on 12/09/2012 7:35:09 AM PST by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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