Hurts and Hopes Regarding the Recent Debates on Hell

Archdiocese of Washington ^ | December 9, 2012 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[Salvation]

Some more references:

Scripture

Matt. 3:12; Luke 3:17 - John the Baptist said the Lord will burn the chaff with unquenchable fire. This unquenchable fire is the state of eternal separation from God, which the Church has called "hell" for 2,000 years. Some Protestant communities no longer acknowledge the reality of hell.

Matt. 25:41 - Jesus says, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Matt. 25:46 - Jesus says, "they will go away into eternal punishment" which is in reference to this eternal fire.

Mark 9:47-48 - Jesus refers to hell as where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. It lasts forever.

2 Thess. 1:6-9 - the angels will come with flaming fire and the disobedient will suffer punishment of eternal destruction. It is important to note that "destruction" does not mean "annihilation," as some Protestant denominations teach. It means eternal exclusion from the presence of God.

Jude 6-7 - the rebelling angels, and Sodom and Gomorrah, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Rev. 14:11 - the worshipers of the beast suffer and the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever.

Rev. 20:10 - they're tormented in the lake of fire and brimstone day and night forever and ever.

Isaiah 33:14 - "Who of us can dwell in the everlasting fire?" This is a reference to hell which is forever.

Isaiah 66:24 - their worm shall not die and their fire shall not be quenched. We cannot fathom the pain of this eternal separation from God.

Jer. 15:14 - in my anger a fire is kindled which shall burn forever. Hell is the proper compliment to the eternal bliss of heaven.

Judith 16:17 - in the day of judgment the Lord will take vengeance on the wicked and they shall weep in pain forever. Hell is a place that sinners have prepared for themselves by rejecting God, who desires all people to be saved in His Son Jesus Christ. God sends no one to hell.

[count-your-change]

Jesus suffered all those things in hell? Peter left that out I guess.

[Salvation]

What do you mean?

In the Apostles’ Creed we say, “He descended into hell, and on the third day he arose again from the dead.”

The hell that Christ went to was more like the Purgatory/Paradise — a waiting place for those who were heaven-bound, but could not enter heaven, because Christ was the first one into heaven

[count-your-change]

“The hell that Christ went to was more like the Purgatory/Paradise”

Nope. The Scriptures do not teach a purgatory and paradise is never associated with hell.

[marine86297]

The first mention of Purgatory in the Bible is in 2 Maccabees 12:46: “Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from sin.”

n the New Testament In Matthew 5:26 Christ is condemning sin and speaks of liberation only after expiation. “Amen, I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid the last penny.” Now we know that no last penny needs to be paid in Heaven and from Hell there is no liberation at all; hence the reference must apply to a third place.

[count-your-change]

Maccabees is not part of the Bible (a point adequately covered in past threads) and Matt. 5:26 is discussing settling differences with others not some purgatory.

Acts 2:31 says Christ was resurrected from hell.

[marine86297]

Just because you say Maccabees is not part of the Bible does not make it so, regardless of what past threads have covered. It is part of the Bible, maybe you don’t “recognize” Maccabees to justify your own non-belief in the concept of purgatory.

[count-your-change]

What the Bible does teach is repentance, Christ's sacrifice and God's forgiveness removes sin not being “purged” somewhere.
Therefore Maccabees is false, therefore not part of the Bible.
The doctrine of purgatory is invention of those whose didn't and won't believe what the Bible teaches.

And you did say there was no liberation from hell. Changed your mind on that or have you forgotten?

[marine86297]

No mind changing here, you'll need to read my reply again to clarify my point.

Apparently we'll have to agree to dis-agree on this subject.

[greyfox]

“So, given the lessons of scripture, I don’t see the reality of hell as being “arrogant” or “nonsense” at all. No matter how may times you say it without offering any evidence or objective argument to back the assertion up”.

You ask me for evidence yet your only “evidence” is scripture, which is really no evidence at all, only words written by people who lived somewhere in the past. I stand by me assertion: “How can man, who is but a blip on the continuum of time, be so arrogant as to think there is a heaven or a hell just for him/her, what utter nonsense”

[greyfox]

“So, given the lessons of scripture, I don’t see the reality of hell as being “arrogant” or “nonsense” at all. No matter how may times you say it without offering any evidence or objective argument to back the assertion up”.

You ask me for evidence yet your only “evidence” is scripture, which is really no evidence at all, only words written by people who lived somewhere in the past. I stand by my assertion: “How can man, who is but a blip on the continuum of time, be so arrogant as to think there is a heaven or a hell just for him/her, what utter nonsense”

[circlecity]

"You ask me for evidence yet your only “evidence” is scripture, which is really no evidence at all, only words written by people who lived somewhere in the past."

So on that basis I gues we just reject the reality of any history at all? Yet there is more historical evidence of Jesus, Heaven and Hell than of Caesar, Alexander, Cleopatra or Hannibal. But is guess those are just "words written by someone in the past" too. Bwhahahaha.