Posted on 12/17/2012 1:19:04 PM PST by RnMomof7
"There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Churchwhich is, of course, quite a different thing."
"These millions can hardly be blamed for hating Catholics because Catholics adore statues; because they put the Blessed Mother on the same level with God; because they say indulgence is a permission to commit sin; because the Pope is a Fascist; because the Church is the defender of Capitalism. If the Church taught or believed any one of these things, it should be hated, but the fact is that the Church does not believe nor teach any one of them. It follows then that the hatred of the millions is directed against error and not against truth. As a matter of fact, if we Catholics believed all of the untruths and lies which were said against the Church, we probably would hate the Church a thousand times more than they do."
"If I were not a Catholic, and were looking for the true Church in the world today, I would look for the one Church which did not get along well with the world; in other words, I would look for the Church which the world hates."
"My reason for doing this would be, that if Christ is in any one of the churches of the world today, He must still be hated as He was when He was on earth in the flesh. If you would find Christ today, then find the Church that does not get along with the world. Look for the Church that is hated by the world, as Christ was hated by the world. Look for the Church which is accused of being behind the times, as Our Lord was accused of being ignorant and never having learned. Look for the Church which men sneer at as socially inferior, as they sneered at Our Lord because He came from Nazareth. Look for the Church which is accused of having a devil, as Our Lord was accused of being possessed by Beelzebub, the Prince of Devils. Look for the Church which the world rejects because it claims it is infallible, as Pilate rejected Christ because he called Himself the Truth. Look for the Church which amid the confusion of conflicting opinions, its members love as they love Christ, and respect its voice as the very voice of its Founder, and the suspicion will grow, that if the Church is unpopular with the spirit of the world, then it is unworldly, and if it is unworldly, it is other-worldly. Since it is other-worldly, it is infinitely loved and infinitely hated as was Christ Himself. ... the Catholic Church is the only Church existing today which goes back to the time of Christ. History is so very clear on this point, it is curious how many miss its obviousness." - Archbishop Fulton Sheen
These anti-Catholic threads are posted for the benefit of the posters.Most are driven to continually assuage their guilt over leaving the Church. Although they deny it, it is a wound that does not heal so the posts continue unabated. In truth they do nothing but drive Catholics closer to their Church. All we can do is pray for them and ignore the insults.
Peace be with you
You may want to rethink Luthers thoughts on the assumption
He uses similar argumentation of Stravinskas and Cole, but with a twist: Luther must have held a lifelong belief in the Assumption because he never denied it. In my earlier post, I traced the popular notion that Luther simply affirmed the Assumption, even though never pronouncing on it clearly, and that this notion comes from a mis-reading of a footnote by Max Thurian. His argument is only slightly different but just as weak. I pointed out this faulty method of argumentation in part one, via this quote:
“But an argument from silence is recognized by all to be quite weak. It implies that one must have almost total evidence before demonstration is possible. If this is the case, one could argue cogently that there may have been airplanes in the time of Christ.” Dewey M. Beegle, Scripture, Tradition, and Infallibility (Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1973), p. 178.
http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2007/09/luther-assumption-was-settled-fact-part_24.html
And it also explains how the faith was carried from then till now. It, the RCC, has not always been as apostate as it is now. They now try to retrofit and its not working with those who truly want to find truth.
Thanks for posting this RnMomof7
Could you supply a link to that letter?
My research shows St. John of Damascene in the 8th Century was the 1st to propose that
But that is not the RCC. Just because the RCC tries to usurp the title does not make it so.
Really.... lets see some proof of the teachings of the EARLY church fathers on the assumption and papal infallibility..?? How about on Peter being the pope.. lets see something from the 1st 50 years after Christ
It never ceases to surprise me how some allegedly former Catholics are so incredibly ignorant of Catholic teaching. It border upon the obtuse.
Saint is synonymous with holy (sanctus). Roman Catholics, the Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, and Lutherans all refer to him as Saint Michael the Archangel and also simply as Saint Michael.
Peace be with you.
You may want to rethink Luthers thoughts on the assumption
He uses similar argumentation of Stravinskas and Cole, but with a twist: Luther must have held a lifelong belief in the Assumption because he never denied it. In my earlier post, I traced the popular notion that Luther simply affirmed the Assumption, even though never pronouncing on it clearly, and that this notion comes from a mis-reading of a footnote by Max Thurian. His argument is only slightly different but just as weak. I pointed out this faulty method of argumentation in part one
Nothing in your replay appears to address the text I posted.
Sorry, I can't. You could contact the Web site's editor.
Do they light candles and incense in front of statues? Do they face a statue and ask for blessings? Do they put statues in front of their homes, on their car dash for protection?
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
2Kings 18:4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.
>>because they put the Blessed Mother on the same level with God;<<
Lets take the prayer of Prayer of Pope Pius XII. [http://catholicism.about.com/od/tothevirginmary/qt/Honor_Immacula.htm]
Ill use just the bolded excerpts from the prayer.
we cast ourselves into your arms
1 Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. (When did we need to replace God with Mary?)
confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.
Hebrews 4:15-16 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (once again Catholics replacing Christ with Mary)
O crystal fountain of faith
Romans 12:3 according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. or "a measure of faith." (but Mary is the fountain of faith for Catholics)
Lily of all holiness
1 Samuel 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God. (for Catholics however, all holiness is given to Mary)
Conqueress of evil and death
Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes. (but Catholics claim it was Mary who conquered death)
Convert the wicked
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; (Catholics have even replaced the Holy Spirit with Mary)
The NT canon is very easy to understand:
Apostolic authorship.
Read some conservative evangelical scholarship for explanations of this.
Bruce Metzger has a good book on this.
Michael the archangel is not a saint because he never had to be sanctified.
He never fell into sin.
Thtat’s why we don’t call him saint.
I can only assume that is a rhetorical question that you do not want an accurate answer to since the hundreds of previous times your assertions have been rebutted have fallen upon deaf ears and the answers were contained within the quote I posted. Since it is clear to me that you do not want an answer you will not get an answer. You will get my pity and prayers.
Peace be with you.
St. Michael is called a Saint by Roman and Eastern Catholics, Coptics, Anglicans, Episcopals, and Lutherans, leaving you in a very distinct minority of those who call themselves Christians. That causes me to ask who exactly is "we"?
Peace be with you.
From the article I linked to
But an argument from silence is recognized by all to be quite weak. It implies that one must have almost total evidence before demonstration is possible. If this is the case, one could argue cogently that there may have been airplanes in the time of Christ." Dewey M. Beegle, Scripture, Tradition, and Infallibility (Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1973), p. 178.
If we followed this method of argument, we could prove Luther believed in Santa or Bigfoot, simply because no evidence exists to prove he did not I think it's important to keep in mind, it seems Catholic apologists do not have any positive evidence to offer that Luther actually believed in the Bodily Assumption of Mary. The closest they get is the 1522 quote, and this quote never affirms Mary's Bodily Assumption.
We can at least give this apologist credit for noting Luther's later disdain for the Feast of the Assumption. Catholic historian Thomas OMeara points out:
In 1544 the Assumption is abandoned as a feast; the Ascension of Christ alone is recognized: 'The feast of the Assumption is totally papist, full of idolatry and without foundation in the Scriptures. But we, even though Mary has gone to heaven, should not bother about how she went there. We will not invoke her as our special advocate as the Pope teaches. (The Pope takes away veneration due to the Ascension of our Lord, Christ, with the result that he has made the mother like in all things to the Son.)' "
Actually Id like to see scripture that show that Peter ever served in Rome. There is absolutely no record of Peter having ever been in Rome.
In the analogy we have three persons, lets call them John, Jim and Theo. John and Jim represent all men John represent those will go to heaven, which in this analogy is represented by going to the concert, of which a ticket, representing salvation, is required. Jim represents those who do not go to heaven while Theo represents God.
Monergism
John and Jim are not aware of the concert they even cannot afford to buy ticket no matter how hard they work. Theo decided to send free ticket to John. John found the ticket inside his mail box it made him interested in the concert and therefore he goes to the concert. Jim did not receive free ticket he cannot go to the concert and remains unaware of the concert.
Protestants and Bible only Christians who follow Calvinism or Reformed theology are monergists.
Synergism
John and Jim are not aware of the concert they even cannot afford to buy ticket no matter how hard they work. Theo took the initiative he offered free tickets to both John and Jim. John said he wanted to go to the concert and accepted the offer. Jim, on the other hand, said he is not interested in the concert and declined the offer.
Catholics, Protestants and Bible only Christians who follow Arminianism are synergists
Semi-Pelagianism
John and Jim are aware of the concert but they cannot afford to buy ticket no matter how hard they work. John decided he wanted to go to the concert. Realizing he will never be able to buy the ticket, he contacted Theo for help Theo gave him free ticket. Jim, on the other hand, is not interested to go to concert and does not bother to contact Theo.
Pelagianism
John and Jim are aware of the concert and they can afford to buy ticket, though they must work hard. John decided he wanted to go to the concert he has been working hard for it. Optionally he can ask Theo for help if he does Theo will give him money a gift from him (not a loan) and it can cover partial cost of the ticket. Jim, on the other hand, is not interested to go to concert and does not bother to do anything.
Pelagian and semi-Pelagian were condemned at Council of Orange in 529 AD.
St. Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle
Be our protection against the wickedness
and snares of the devil;
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray,
and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host,
by the power of God,
Cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits
who prowl through the world seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen
+
Which apostle wrote Hebrews?
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