Upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. (Matthew 16:18)
Nothing to avoid here, though from the way you brandish it about, you intend to use it as loaded question. Having been a former pretribber myself, I think I know where you are coming from. It goes something like this, the church will be overpowered totally by the antichrist in the tribulation, therefore, since Jesus said his church will not be overpowered, it must be raptured out before the tribulation. That’s the theory behind it anyway.
What this is is just another inference. Where one might infer a pretrib rapture. Pretribs think an inference is all they need. Not so, you first need a clear setting forth somewhere in scripture of a two stage second coming, THEN an inference such as this would have validity. But you are lacking that clear setting forth of a two stage second coming, therefore all you have is just another inference.
Take a look at this scripture, “For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake,” Phil. 1:29. and this one, 2 Tim. 2:12, “If we suffer, we shall also reign with him.” There is no crown without a cross, GN.
Because many will suffer in the tribulation does not mean they have been overpowered. Was Jesus overpowered in his crucifixion? Was Paul overpowered in his martyrdom? What Jesus meant by being overcome must not be what you think it means.
Moreover, despite the martyrdom in the tribulation, not everybody in the church will be martyred. Didn’t Paul say, “we which are alive and remain?” (shall be caught up with those who had been martyred, the dead in Christ, in the rapture, 1 Thess. 4)
One thing you and I can be sure of, his church will not be defeated in the tribulation, but will be victorious in it. Jesus said so.
Really? Jesus said that? Why didn't you post the exact Scripture where He said that? Where is the Scripture where Jesus Christ said that His church will not be defeated in the Tribulation?
You do have the exact Scripture, right sasportas?
You are right; it is ALL about inference. Just like the scripture I posted from Rev. 9, about God marking the forheads of those that believe to set them apart, and GN claims that that’s only for NEW believers that come about during the tribulation.
She consistently insists others post scriptures to back up our positions (which we do over and over again), then insults us and calls us demonic by holding a post trib belief, but wants us to embrace nothing but gray ambiguity dealt us from her wish list of escaping the tough times. I believe she undermines the strength of Christ and the believers by automatically assuming that Satan will prevail if we’re here. It’s just not so.
Note Paul's words indicate he is expecting to maybe be alive at the resurrection. All the disciples and apostles, including Paul, expected to be resurrected in their lifetimes. The reason was because Jesus said he was coming in their generation; and he said it in many ways, on many occasions.
Daniel wrote of what appeared to be a partial resurrection, of only his people (Israel):
"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."(Daniel 12:1-2)
Note not all, but many are resurrected. If every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess before Christ, what about the others? When will they be resurrected?
Philip