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To: MeOnTheBeach
You cannot be a leader in the Catholic Church and be married.

I beg to differ. The Eastern Catholic Churches have married priests.

Paul is not saying don't do this and you'll be ok. Paul has seen a vision of the last days. He talks about this further in 2 Tim 3.

Dear friend, the topic of this thread is Celibacy and the Priesthood. You have bypassed the topic and moved on to Paul's letters to Timothy on a multitude of topics. In 2 Timothy, Paul urges Timothy to protect the community from the inevitable impact of false teaching (2 Tim 2:14-3:9), without fear of the personal attacks that may result (2 Tim 3:10-13). It recommends that he rely on the power of the scriptures, on proclamation of the word, and on sound doctrine (2 Tim 3:14-4:2), without being troubled by those who do not accept him (2 Tim 4:3-5).

Back to the topic of this thread, it is important to note that Paul lead a celibate life. So far from "commanding" marriage in 1 Corinthians 7, in that very chapter Paul actually endorses celibacy for those capable of it: "To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion" (7:8-9).

It is only because of this "temptation to immorality" (7:2) that Paul gives the teaching about each man and woman having a spouse and giving each other their "conjugal rights" (7:3); he specifically clarifies, "I say this by way of concession, not of command. I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another" (7:6-7, emphasis added).

Paul even goes on to make a case for preferring celibacy to marriage: "Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage. . . those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. . . . The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband" (7:27-34).

Paul’s conclusion: He who marries "does well; and he who refrains from marriage will do better" (7:38).

53 posted on 01/29/2013 1:53:39 PM PST by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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To: NYer
Paul even goes on to make a case for preferring celibacy to marriage: "Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage. . . those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. . . . The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband" (7:27-34).

Paul’s conclusion: He who marries "does well; and he who refrains from marriage will do better" (7:38).


Your interpretation of this passage totally contradicts 1 Cor 11:11

11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

Paul is not prophesying nor is he speaking for the Lord here, he's simply conversing. He's consoling the unmarried not instructing everyone to not be married. You're discounting the whole Bible. It's a logical fallacy. You have greater evidence that points away from your conclusion but you ignore it.

God Himself proclaims three people in the Bible as being perfect; Abraham, Noah, and Job. There is no higher state of spirituality or faith than being called perfect by God Himself. All three of these men were married. Abraham even had two wives at the same time and God pronounced him perfect.

Therefore, you cannot conclude that being unmarried is better in the eyes of God. These men could not be perfect if there was a better state to be achieved.

Jesus said:

Mark 10:7
6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.


Being married is God's intent for all people.

You are correct in that the topic is celibacy and the priesthood. How can you discuss this topic and not discuss the prophetic warning against those that practice it?
54 posted on 01/30/2013 7:11:30 AM PST by MeOnTheBeach
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To: NYer
I don't mean to press the issue, but I was really hoping for an answer on this topic.

How many churches in our time (or anytime), call themselves "Christian" and have any doctrine of forbidding to marry? Who else could Paul be seeing in his vision?

If you don't mind, Paul was relating his vision of the last days. What churches in our time have any doctrines that require a person to not be married? I can only find one. Do you know of another?
55 posted on 01/30/2013 9:24:24 AM PST by MeOnTheBeach
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