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To: roamer_1
t seems to me that such breaches are developed through errant doctrine (doctrine, the tool of teachers and preachers), and as such, the purveyors of doctrine are not in a position to fix the breach (as they are the cause thereof). There are only two offices in the ordinary function of the Assembly that transcend the authority of that doctrine, those of the Apostle and of the Prophet.

Glad we seem to agree on most things, but here it seems you are presenting doctrine in a negative light as opposed to apostles or prophets, however, doctrine is that you are even expressing here, and is not itself a negative thing, nor is it something apostles or prophets were above, but instead they preached doctrine themselves, and won over the competition by superior virtue and power.

The very first thing to leave an apostate assembly are it's true prophets. This is a sign that they have stepped beyond the breach, having been sent prophets for correction...it is only these two offices that can correct wayward doctrine with the authority of direct divine intervention, and their absence from greater Christendom should give one pause. ,

The problem here is that of men elevating themselves as virtual popes, which is itself a problem, based upon their own claim to office. And in my many years as a Christian, if unprofitable servant, every person who was hailed or who hail themselves as a modern day apostle or prophet has not proved it to my knowledge, and what i have usually seen testifiers against such, not that i exclude there can yet be some who do prophecy from God in fulfillment of Scripture and consistent with it, or leaders who are sent from God to plant many churches (Chuck Smith, etc,.).

But authenticity is based upon Scriptural substantiation in word, power and virtue, (2Cor. 6:4-10) having "renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. " (2 Corinthians 4:2) In which i certain come short.

Those who do so will not need the advertising and gimmicks and pseudo prophecies that abound today, and i think true prophets or those who walk in the spirit of such have been more forth tellers that foretellers, and relatively ignored except by a remant as voices crying in the wilderness.

Watch/Listen to a sample of such who preach like that: Soldiers

23 posted on 02/06/2013 6:09:38 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212
Glad we seem to agree on most things, but here it seems you are presenting doctrine in a negative light as opposed to apostles or prophets, however, doctrine is that you are even expressing here, and is not itself a negative thing, nor is it something apostles or prophets were above, but instead they preached doctrine themselves, and won over the competition by superior virtue and power.

To be more precise, perhaps I should say 'errant doctrine which has reached the level of dogma', or that which has become so ingrained that it may as well be dogma. But in saying that, I do not want to lose the broader term of 'doctrine'. Many doctrinal beliefs are not exactly injurious to the Word, and may only be indifferent - Yet in that, they are *not* Word. And even though indifferent, the distraction they provide works against the Word all the same.

And I do not mean to malign doctrine. As I said, it is a tool of teachers and preachers, and can often be inspired. That is not the point. Rather, it is a somewhat natural extension of preaching that it would tend to go astray - That, I believe, is why YHWH ordered the pageantry of ridding one's house of all leaven once a year, a practice which Christians ignore.

,

The problem here is that of men elevating themselves as virtual popes, which is itself a problem, based upon their own claim to office. And in my many years as a Christian, if unprofitable servant, every person who was hailed or who hail themselves as a modern day apostle or prophet has not proved it to my knowledge, and what i have usually seen testifiers against such, not that i exclude there can yet be some who do prophecy from God in fulfillment of Scripture and consistent with it, or leaders who are sent from God to plant many churches (Chuck Smith, etc,.).

I have found a meager few... just a handful. And not a one was to be found in grand cathedrals or on Christian TV. Similarly, during a dark time, I received encouragement from a total stranger sent to me specifically (or so it seems), with an uncanny knowledge of my precise situation. So while I recognize your statement to be true in general, my own experience suggests their existence. But then I do not look for such things within the borders of orthodoxy - When orthodoxy is no longer orthodox, what seems to be heresy is where to look for truth... Even as the Roman church considered the Protestants to be heretic because they would not yield to what was considered orthodox by their demand.

So a crazy street preacher is more likely to catch my attention, and a tent beside the road is more likely to draw me in than a building made of stone... The 'foolish things' as it were... And while most of the time one is likely to find actual heresy, and real foolishness, every now and then one finds something incredibly and powerfully authentic.

I think one must consider what Ezekiel looked like to the common man, as he lay naked in the street, cooking his goofy bread over a dung fire, and building his silly toy castles. There, FRiend, is a prophet of YHWH. How many people must have passed him by uttering epithets against his sanity? How foolish did he look, especially compared to the churchmen of his day, and the opulence and 'authority' of the priesthood?

That isn't to say that YHWH's prophets didn't come in power too - Cattle tipping over from the power emanating from Elijah is a pretty awesome sight to imagine... And David was a beloved king. But for the most part, prophets seem to be itinerant and solitary (except when together, or hanging with musicians [Samuel, etc]), and as the record proves, largely ignored or even hated. Bearing that in mind, where does one suppose that one will find a prophet? Isn't it reasonable to suppose he will be the crazy one that nobody listens to?

Those who do so will not need the advertising and gimmicks and pseudo prophecies that abound today, and i think true prophets or those who walk in the spirit of such have been more forth tellers that foretellers, and relatively ignored except by a remant as voices crying in the wilderness.

Hasn't it generally always been so?

Watch/Listen to a sample of such who preach like that: Soldiers

Just.WOW. :) Thanks for that.

24 posted on 02/08/2013 10:07:14 AM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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