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To: count-your-change

Thanks for your reply. The Catechism states it very clearly. A longer and more complete treatment of the issue is in Pope John Paul II’s encyclical Faith and Reason:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_15101998_fides-et-ratio_en.html

I recommend this to anyone interested in how faith and reason support each other.

This is the teaching of the Church, first clearly established by St. Thomas Aquinas. God can be known by nature and by reason - though transformation and salvation require the grace of God.

Reason is not opposed by religion. Religion transcends reason -this is a key difference. For example, you cannot, using reason/logic alone know that love is better than hate, kindness better than cruelty... This is known through revelation, through God. Reason alone neither proves nor negates, it is incapable of knowing absolute truths. These transcend reason’s capability.

The same for science. Science can describe or model the how; it cannot know direction, purpose or why. It cannot know these due to the limitations of its method. God, defined as not having a simple location, quantity, size etc. is outside the self-imposed limitations of science. In addition, the supernatural is outside science capacity.

As God and religion transcend the capability of the intellect and the senses to know, they transcend the capability of reason and science. This does not mean they contradict.

Islam teaches a God that contradicts; this was the basis for Pope Benedicts objection and arguments against Islam - it is irrational.

Again, to force the false choice of reason vs. religion or science vs. religion is both incorrect and harmful to both.


53 posted on 02/07/2013 11:46:56 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr
“Again, to force the false choice of reason vs. religion or science vs. religion is both incorrect and harmful to both”

It's not a false choice at all. The scientific explanation for the existence of humans is that random events occurred that started life, no need to invoke any higher powers.
And further random events will/can end that life.

Yet the Bible teaches just the opposite, that humans are the direct creation of God and that the present condition of man physically and morally is not upward evolving but deterioration.

Some absolute truths can be known by reason as Paul said God's invisible qualities can be perceived by examining what He has created. Rom. 1:20.

“In addition, the supernatural is outside science capacity.”

Agreed. But this hasn't stopped leaders like the pope from surrendering questions of the supernatural to atheistic science, questions like the origin and formation of life on earth, its purpose and fate.

The attempts to reconcile what is falsely called knowledge with religion has resulted in faith being equated with credulity, belief despite truth and fact.

64 posted on 02/07/2013 1:51:27 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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