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We don’t have to work at all for our salvation. Not one bit.
Posted on 02/07/2013 4:42:47 PM PST by Colofornian
You mix in truth with falsehood to make it sound bad. There is only a symbolic washing and none of even that has anything to do with private parts.
Ok, like any religion they have minimum requirements to be members, for them that is confess Jesus Christ and be Baptized. Pretty much the same as in any other church. What is different is that they have temples. If you want to go into the temple you must tow the line. Just like any club or other organization.
Part of the requrement to go to the temple is tithing, so. Ththing isn’t a requirement to take the Lords Supper, it isn’t a requirement to attend any church meeting or even to have church callings or speak in meetings.
I suspect that there would be requirements to be a priest or to to teach in any other church seminary too. Nobody lets just anybody do anything they want in any church.
Personal questions? You think queers shouldn’t be asked about their personal life before they serve communion? Nobody has to answer any question they don’t want to answer. By the same token nobody is forced to go to the temple, they go because they want to. If they want to go badly enough they will answer the questions.
I just don’t see the problem here. I don’t mind, they won’t let me in, unless I join the church. They had an open house one time and I went through and saw the whole place. I just don’t know what all the concern is about. Only people who want to do it go. If you don’t want to go badly enough to answer the questions don’t go.
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We don’t have to work at all for our salvation. Not one bit.
but why are you not LDS yourself. It would lend far more “umph” to your argument if you would put your faith where your keyboard is...
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We can only be members of one church. If I am Methodist it doesnt mean that I believe that the Baptist are a false church, it just means that I believe differently than they. I didn’t say I believe everything that Mormons believe but there is much that we all have in common. They believe in the same Jesus Christ that I believe in. I’m not sure how much of the other stuff is important to any of us. It is important to them, fine. As long as it get them to Jesus Christ what difference does it make.
When Peter was on the earth the only way to the kingdom was through him. Today it is the same. The only way to any church is via baptism and a priest has to decide whether or not you can be baptised. So I have to go through a priest to get to Jesus? In the strict litteral sense yes. It is the same with Joseph Smith or Brigham Young to Mormons.
When any of us want to be Christian we can do that by professing Christ and following Him, but to be a member of a church we must confess our belief to some priest in order to be allowed admission to the “formal” christianity. We don’t go baptize ourselves and call ourselves Catholic. For about 1700 years you could not be officially Christian unless you were Catholic. It is only recently that Catholics recognize the baptism of other churches, does that mean that Lutherans were not Christian? I think not.
There are many churches that teach that the Catholic Church is evil. I say if you don’t want to be Catholic then don’t but don’t hastle me if I find that is the way to Christ. I don’t begrudge anyone’s efforts to follow The Lord Jesus Christ. I don’t judge anybody’s sincerity in trying to follow Jesus Christ if that is what they profess they are doing.
Please don’t take this as mean spirited but, just who are you to judge?
The lds-org denies that Jesus is the Creator, that everything was created THROUGH Him, BY Him and FOR Him.
So, Jesus CANNOT be Satan's brother. Satan is a created being.
Jesus is the CREATOR.
Is that your Jesus? Was Jesus created, or is He the Creator???
You err seriously on this. I don’t know what doctrine you have twisted but I have attended their meetings and am married to one. They believe that the only name in Heaven or in the universe for that matter that can save them is Jesus Christ. (JAKraig)
ALL: See for yourself with these quotes from Lds general authorities...who are ya gonna believe...a non-Mormon married to a Mormon (JAKraig)...or straight from the Salt Lake Tabernacle's mouth?
* "Joseph Smith IS THE 'CONSENT,' 'PASSPORT,' 'CERTIFIER,' KINGDOM 'KEY' HOLDER OF AUTHORITY, the testimony, and the 'salvation,'"
* "...NO MAN can reject that testimony [and] enter the kingdom of God"
Sources: Various Lds "prophets" and "apostles" (see below for exact references)
Brigham Young -- The Mormons' Top Authority & Figurehead of its educational system: "NO man or woman in this dispensation will EVER enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the CONSENT of Joseph Smith..." (Lds "prophet" Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289-91)
Young again: ...EVERY man and woman MUST have the CERTIFICATE of Joseph Smith, junior, as a PASSPORT to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are... (same source)
Young again: "If I ever pass into heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of Prophet Joseph. If you ever pass through the gates of the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass. Can you pass without his inspection? No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation in the fullness of times. In this generation, and all the generations that are to to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet." (Brigham Young JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224 Oct. 21, 1860)
Young again, three years prior to that: "I know that Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God, that this is the Gospel of salvation, and if you do not believe it you will be damned, every one of you" (Journal of Discourses 4:298, March 29, 1857).
Lds "apostle" Orson Hyde: Joseph holds the KEYS, and NONE of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155) Btw: Hyde was President of the Lds Quorum of the 12 Apostles for 28 years (1847-1875)
"If we get our salvation, we SHALL HAVE to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; IF we enter our glory, it will be through the AUTHORITY he has received." (Lds Apostle George Q. Cannon, as quoted in
..."no SALVATION without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...NO MAN can reject that TESTIMONY...for he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190)
For Mormons, the choice is yours: Either...
(a) you recognize that Lds top leaders give false statements -- and are never called on the carpet for them by their grassroots & ensuing leaders -- and thereby contemporary Mormons sanction these statements (and are culpable in God's eyes as adhering to them)... -- or (b)...you recognize these statements are what Mormons believe to be true even today, and therefore constitute a false, substitutionary gospel where Smith & the Lds church are idols substituted for our Savior, Jesus Christ.
That's the only choice. Lds can admit many of their past leaders are false prophets, or they have contributed to outright idolatry. There is no other choice.
There's some things we actually agree with Lds leaders in their general premises;
While at the same time, Mormonism has distorted the one True Jesus and twisted Him into an entirely different Being! (And just like a Nazi twisted "cross" is no cross at all, a twisted "Jesus" is no genuine Jesus at all!)
| Lds Source | Lds Leaders Say: 'Different Christ' | Bible indicates: 'Different Christ' |
| Lds 'prophet' Gordon B. Hinckley: | Lds "prophet" Gordon B. Hinckley: “There are those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.” (LDS Church News, June 20, 1998) Hinckley again: As a Church we have critics, many of them. They say we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity. There is some substance to what they say. Our faith, our knowledge is not based on ancient tradition, the creeds which came of a finite understanding and out of the almost infinite discussions of men trying to arrive at a definition of the risen Christ. Our faith, our knowledge comes of the witness of a prophet in this dispensation who saw before him the great God of the universe and His Beloved Son, the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. ("We Look to Christ", from April 2002 General Conference.) |
"The FACT IS, we do NOT depend on the Bible or on traditional biblical interpretations for our theology." (BYU professor Robert L. Millet, Review of Books on the Book of Mormon, 6:1, p. 198). Did you notice the "WE" of Millet's statement? -- and that there wasn't a storm or even a peep of protest from either Mormon leaders or Mormon grassroots objecting to this Millet statement...and I would guestimate that lack of protest encompasses ALL FReeper Mormons! In stark contrast, the traditional Christ within Christianity is... ...uniquely THE ONLY begotten Son from eternity past, not one of millions of God's pre-existent "sons"; He is uniquely Savior, not one of millions of saviors per Mormondom; He is uniquely Creator and divine and self-existent from eternity past, not one of MILLIONS of men who are somehow likewise "self-existent" from eternity past; His blood is uniquely powerful beyond men's commandment-keeping -- lest the promise Jesus made to the thief on the cross become a false prophecy; His blood is potent enough to cover ALL sins, unlike the Mormon Jesus who leaves men to "make up" for anemic blood via their own "blood atonement." He absorbed God's wrath vs. the Book of Mormon violent Jesus who took out His wrath upon thousands of residents in alleged 16 Book of Mormon cities! The violent Mormon Jesus sunk, entombed, and otherwise destroyed perhaps up to 90,000 upon His death on the Mormon cross! The Bible knows no such horrific crucifixion aftermath fairy tales... |
| Lds official publication Ensign; BYU Press; Lds curricula - Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide | “It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons.” – LDS publication, Ensign Magazine, May 1977, p. 26; "True and saving worship is found ONLY among those who know the truth about God and the Godhead, and who understand the true relationship men should have with each member of that Eternal Presidency." ("Our Relationship with the Lord," in Fireside and Devotional Speeches, 1981-82 (Provo: BYU Press, 1982), p. 97 -- this quote republished in official Lds curricula publication in 1983, 1986, Come unto Christ: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1984/1988, p. 45) | (See comparison charts to follow); Christians worship a Christ who can receive direct prayer (Acts 7:59; Mormons even militate vs. their own "scripture" on this -- see 3 Nephi 19:18, 24-26) |
| Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie | "And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pg.269). | The Christ of Christianity is 'mythical' per an Lds "apostle"? And Mormons imagine that they haven't somehow wielded a direct attack upon Christians worldwide? May I remind Mormons that Lds continued to publish McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine" book? (The Mormon church got ahold of the direct copyright, acquiring it from Bookcraft, and then publishing it under its direct ownership umbrella -- Deseret Book Publishing -- in 1993) McConkie's book was published/republished under 7, count 'em 7, Mormon "prophets" (McKay, Lee, Kimball, Benson, Hunter, Hinckley, Monson). Only McKay conveyed strongly that alterations needs to be forthcoming after the initial edition, and revisions were made...but not enough to keep from embarrassing the Mormon faithful ever since! |
Note: For documentation as to showing "proof" for these answers below, see the next (last) chart.
| Questions Distinguishing 'Mormon' Jesus from Jesus of Bible | Mormon 'Jesus'? | Based upon what Lds 'scripture' | Jesus of Bible? | Relevant Scriptures |
| 1. Was Jesus self-existent from all eternity past? | Lds say NO -- unless Lds want to claim that men also are 'self-existent' from eternity past: "Man was also in the beginning with God." (D&C 93:29); yet they de-emphasize their own "scripture" -- Alma 13:9 in the Book of Mormon, where it reads how Jesus was "the only begotten without beginning of days" | D&C 93:29 vs. Alma 13:9. Note: In Joseph Smith's "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith," he also elaborated upon a "council of gods" who were before Heavenly Father; and how Heavenly Father himself had a "father" and grandfather. | YES | John 8:58; John 1:1,18; Micah 5:2; Ex. 3:14 |
| 2. Is the title 'firstborn' as applied to Christ NOT linked to being the "elder brother" of you and me as pre-earth spirits, as Mormons interpret it, but rather to the Son of God being the pre-eminent heir and creator of all things? |
NO |
D&C 93:21 -- introduced 1833...not found in Book of Mormon | NO | Col. 1:15-18; Eph. 6:12; Ps. 80:27 |
| 3. Can the 'Creator' be One who was 'created' (as a 'creature')? | YES | "And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pg.269). | NO | Col. 1:16 |
| 4. Was Jesus as Son of God perfect from eternity past? | NO | "Even Christ himself was NOT perfect at first; he received not a fulness at first, but he received grace for grace, and he continued to receive more and more until he received a fulness." (Lds 6th "prophet" Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, 1986, p. 68); * "...we have a correct idea of the character of the Son from the writings of the apostles, so far as they learned it. But while he was tabernacling in the flesh, he was more or less contaminated with fallen nature." (Brigham Young, JoD vol. 6, p. 95) | YES | 2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 2:22 |
| 5. Was Jesus always 'divine' from eternity past? | NO | * "Jesus BECAME a God and reached His great state of understanding through consistent effort and continuous obedience to all the Gospel truths and universal laws." (p. 51 Milton Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages); * "Christ ATTAINED Godhood while yet in pre-existence..." (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 323) | YES | John 17:5; Heb. 1:8 |
| 6. Was Jesus born "at" Bethlehem? | NO (Jerusalem) | Alma 7:10, Book of Mormon | YES | Micah 5:2 prophesy; Matt. 2:1; Luke 2:4,15; John 7:42 |
| 7. Was one of the purposes that Christ came to earth was so that He, Himself could become a "saved being?" | YES | "Christ is a saved being” (Lds "apostle" McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p 257); * "Christ's rise to the throne of exaltation was preceded by his descent below all things. Only by submitting to the powers of demons and death and hell could he, in the resurrection, serve as our exemplar of a SAVED BEING...” (McConkie and Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1, p. 234) Please also see... * McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238 where he said the Mormon "jesus" "Needs salvation...Came to earth to work out His own salvation”) and * McConkie, "The Seven Deadly Heresies,' in Speeches of the Year, 1980 [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1981] p. 78 where he said: "There was only one perfect being, the Lord Jesus. If men had to be perfect and live all of the law strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity." [cited in Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983 (1983) p. 72] | NO | 1 John 4:14; John 4:42 (THE Savior, not the saved!) |
| 8. Is Jesus but one 'savior'-'redeemer' among many? | YES and NO (Lds contradicts themselves) | LDS: NO: D&C 76:1, 1832; changed 1834 in D&C 103:9 & expanded to save the dead in 1841-1842 (D&C 124; D&C 128:1-3, 17-18...esp. v. 18); also Lds cite Obadiah 21 in the Old Testament as some sort of "justification" for applying "saviors" (plural) to themselves -- alleged "saviors" of mankind via baptisms for the dead! | NO | "THE Savior" in 1 John 4:14 and John 4:42, not saviors plural; also, in 1 Cor. 15:29 which Mormons have hijacked as their own -- the apostle Paul says "they" -- not "we" -- practiced baptism for the dead; also Obadiah 21 has NOTHING to do with baptizing the dead! |
| 9. Were our sins 'atoned' for in the Garden of Gethesemane? | Lds say YES | Lds misinterpret blood sweat in garden of Gethsemane as Jesus was praying as having "effect of atonement" (see official Lds magazine Ensign, for example: June 2007, p. 15) | NO | Col. 1:20; also Jesus never said "pick up your 'garden' and follow me" but said, "pick up your 'CROSS' and follow me" |
| 10. Was Jesus quite violent at the point of His death? | YES | 3 Nephi 8:8-->3 Nephi 9:12, esp. 8:23; 9:12, Book of Mormon | NO | Jesus became sin (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 2:24) and became a curse (Gal. 3:13) on behalf of all, absorbing God's wrath on our behalf |
| 11. Did Jesus really die for our personal sins or our rebellious nature? | NOTHING CONCLUSIVE: Lds "scriptures" are all over the map on this one: Mormonism teaches that (a) children have no sin nature & "cannot sin until they begin to become accountable" (D&C 29:47) -- even tho the Lds Pearl of Great Price teaches that children are conceived in sin (Moses 6:55), which "jives" more with Psalm 51:5 and 58:3; (b) yet the Book of Mormon teaches that men have a "carnal and fallen state" and that unless "they become new creatures...unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God." (Mosiah 27:26)...adding in v. 25 & elsewhere in the BoM that they "must be born again"; but apparently that was all past tense in the pre-incarnational years of Jesus Christ, because Joseph Smith taught how Jesus redeemed men from the fall, making men "innocent before God" (D&C 93:38)...so men are "innocent" before God? (Oh, sure, that explains today's world "nicely") | Article of Faith 2: "All men will be punished for own sin." | BOTH | 1 John 1:7-9; Romans 5:8-9 |
| 12. Is Christ's powerful atoning blood diluded to 'anemic' levels? | YES | Even tho a few Mormon "scriptures" emphasize the cleansing power of Christ's blood (see, for example Alma 7:14; D&C 76:41; Moses 6:59), Mormonism roots this in law-keeping (D&C 76:52) | NO | 1 John 1:7; Rev. 1:5; Rev. 5:9; Rev. 7:14; Heb. 13:12; Heb. 10:19; Eph. 1:7; Rom. 5:9 |
| 13. Is Jesus as unique as the Bible makes Him out to be? | NO | a: D&C 93:29; b: Moses 3:5; 6:36; Abraham 3:22-23, Pearl of Great Price; c: See references in #7; d: Misreading of Obadiah 21, Old Testament; e: Note references to "gods" as if true plural gods existed: D&C 76:58; D&C 121:28; 132:20,32,37; Moses 4:11; Lds also cite Spring 1844 King Follett sermon from Smith as if "revelational" -- how people have to "become gods themselves"; f: D&C 20:19 -- Only being to be worshiped is God, yet Mormons don't regard Jesus as same "being" as Heavenly Father | YES! | John 3:18: The "Only" Begotten Son from eternity, not one "spirit son" begotten in the pre-existence among millions! |
| 14. Can Jesus be prayed to directly? | NO, all Lds prayer is to Heavenly Father, but can be directed through Christ | No Lds "scripture" to back this up; in fact, Lds "scripture" states the opposite! (see 3 Nephi 19:18, 24-26) | YES! | Acts 7:59 |
So...when you read below...there's actually some agreement here that the gulf is wide...'tis ONLY JAKraig then whose badly out of harmony on this matter!!!!
If a 'counterfeit' person was using your name online -- and has some attributes similar to you -- does it make it 'you' if it's 'close enough?'
| Mormon Leader General Premises about 'Jesus' we actually agree with! | Summary or Scriptural Summary |
| LDS "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie essentially answered the question before the development of the Internet world: "A false Christ is NOT a person. It is a false system of worship, a false church, a false cult that says, 'Lo, here is salvation, here is the doctrine of Christ. Come and believe thus and so, and ye shall be saved.' It is any concept or philosophy that says that redemption, salvation, sanctification, justification, and all of the promised rewards can be gained in any way except that set forth by the [LDS] apostles and prophets." (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, The Millennial Messiah: The Second Coming of the Son of Man, p. 48) | You know, there actually are times we agree with the general premises (but not specific applications) of Mormon leaders like Bruce McConkie! And, even though McConkie was referencing all those outside of Mormonism --ya gotta understand that the Lds church teaches that their church is "the only true and living church on the face of the earth" (Lds Doctrines & Covenants 1:30-- what McConkie says does apply to false systems, false churches, and false cults! |
| Therefore, citing Mormon leaders above & below: How important is it that people don't "misunderstand" who Jesus is? | The New Testament discusses 'another Jesus' (2 Corinthians 11:3-4)...2 Cor. 11:4 -- "For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached..." |
| Per this BYU prof, 'tis very important we don't 'know' another Jesus! "There is NO SALVATION in false doctrine, NO REDEEMING POWER IN MISUNDERSTANDING ABOUT JESUS CHRIST." (BYU associate professor W. Jeffrey Marsh, "Doctrine of Christ restored to the world," Church News, Jan. 3, 2004, p. 6) | 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Jesus, Matthew 24:23-24) |
| Per Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie: * "There is no such thing as gaining salvation from a false god, or by conforming to a false plan of salvation, or through membership in a false church." (Lds Official magazine Ensign (Conference edition), "The Caravan Moves On," Nov.1984, p. 83) *"There is no salvation in believing any false doctrine, particularly a false or unwise view about the Godhead or any of its members. Eternal life is reserved for those who know God and the One whom he sent to work out the infinite and eternal atonement." ("Our Relationship with the Lord," in Fireside and Devotional Speeches, 1981-82 (Provo: BYU Press, 1982), p. 97 -- this quote republished in official Lds curricula publication in 1983, 1986, Come unto Christ: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1984/1988, p. 45) * "True and saving worship is found ONLY among those who know the truth about God and the Godhead, and who undertand the true relationship men should have with each member of that Eternal Presidency." ("Our Relationship with the Lord," in Fireside and Devotional Speeches, 1981-82 (Provo: BYU Press, 1982), p. 97 -- this quote republished in official Lds curricula publication in 1983, 1986, Come unto Christ: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1984/1988, p. 45) |
"And this is life eternal, that they might know knee THE ONLY TRUE God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." (Jesus, John 17:3) [Even Lds "Doctrines & Covenants has 'stolen' a similar saying:] "This is eternal lives--to know THE ONLY wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent..." (D&C 132:24) |
Does any other church require for membership that you affirm that Joseph Smith was a True Prophet of God who restored the Only True Church on the Face of the Earth from Christianity which had fallen into total apostasy?
IOW they have to affirm that whatever church you belong to, if it ain't the Utah LDS Church, is a False Church.
How many other Churches (other than Islam) require that you affirm the prophetic status of a Post-Christ self appointed prophet as part of their requirements before you are entitled to be called a member?
I just don’t see the problem here. I don’t mind, they won’t let me in, unless I join the church.
I think you should join the LDS Church. You are one of their best apologists. Make it official. Call them up and have them send their missionaries to your home. Swear your allegiance not only to the LDS Church, but also to Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
Do it today.
Report back after your baptism.
I understand that you want your statements to be true.
I know mormonism, I lived momronism, I have mormon family, my experiences go back to 1962.
I know what I am talking about.
I will take these two statement together.
I said: The mormon jesus is second to Joseph Smith.
You replied: This is just totally false.
I said: momornism teach that Joseph Smith is greater than their jesus.
You replied: This is a malicious lie.
My evidence:
“No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith” Brigham Young,
Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289-91
Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God”
Orson Hyde
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155
The is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth, no man can reject that testimony, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God”
Joseph Fielding Smith
Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190)
That the time would come when people would “prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a God, and also upon Brigham Young, our Governor in the Territory of Deseret”
Heber C. Kimball
Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 88
I have more to boast of than any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I.
Joseph Smith
History of the Church, Vol.6, pp. 408-09
Additional information:
Salvation “comes only through the Church itself as the Lord established it. Therefore it was made clearly manifest that salvation is in the Church, and of the Church, and is obtained only through the Church.
April 8, 1973
Mark E. Petersen
Nothing; if you are one of the 15% or so of all MORMONs who can answer them correctly.
THEY are the ONLY bunch to make it to the HIGHEST level of MORMON heaven (ask your wife).
The rest of the slackers (and us GENTILES) end up on level TWO; where GOD does NOT live (ask your wife).
Jack MORMONs and evidently lapsed Catholics will be on level 3.
Let's just see what MORMON 'scripture' says about the subject:
The Doctrine and Covenants
Section 132
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in amarriage; but are appointed angels in bheaven, which angels are ministering cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are aangels of God forever and ever.
18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.
19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and beverlasting covenant, and it is csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s gBook of Life, that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever.
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.
21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.
22For astrait is the gate, and narrow the bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.
23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that awhere I am ye shall be also.
24This is aeternal lives—to bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.
25aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.
Does anyone else see a resemblance to Genesis chapter 3:4??
Eve wasn't going to 'become' GOD - just become LIKE GOD.
There's a LOT of that shown on FR.
Even when the MORMON description of 'christ' does NOT match up with the BIBLE's description of Him?
Even one of FR's staunchest Conservatives says that the MORMON god(s) are different.
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Jesus Christ is God’s Son, spiritually and physically. He calls Him Father, He prays to Him. Santorum endorses one-time rival Romney
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See above...
I just HATE when that happens!!
"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."---Joseph Knight's journal.
"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.
"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.
In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:
"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."
"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)
In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:"When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12June 15, 1879, pp. 190-91.)
Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"("A New Witness for Christ in America,"Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)
"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.
I just HATE when that happens!!
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Color coding explanation:
Added stuff... Changed stuff... Rearranged stuff... Removed stuff...
*(UNDERLINED stuff is the DISTRACTING reference on every tenth word or so that infuses LDS 'scripture' online.)
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