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Why Mormonism will Surrender to Homosexuality
Renew America ^ | Feb. 13, 2013 | Linda Kimball

Posted on 02/13/2013 4:44:23 AM PST by spirited irish

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To: 1010RD
Using the fact of Genesis 1:1-3 your thesis for ex nihilo creation is disproved.

Actually 1010, by your own standard it is neither proved nor disproved. You yourself have said it speaks nothing of what went before, so it gives no information as to whether matter was already there or made by God. So we have a draw in that regard as far as what is said about the universe before Genesis.

Now, given that even in the very Hebrew reference you gave me the word created is used, not ordered, reorganized reshaped etc. if we are to make an argument that one side or the other was making suppositions from the text, created supports the "from nothing" far better than he just showed up found some supplies sitting around and decide to toss together the Earth.

I know a weak set of Gods is a necessity for your LDS beliefs, and I know the spiritual gymnastics's it takes to support that, but this one is just to easy.

251 posted on 02/15/2013 12:03:20 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ejonesie22
You're dissembling what I said. Please review it more carefully or perhaps you have already and, knowing no way to answer, can only disparage. Once your argument devolves to the man, well...

The discussion was on creation ex nihilo. Genesis 1:1-3 is clear. There is no creation ex nihilo. End of argument. You may debate till the moon turns blood red, but it won't change that fact.

Given that your doctrine is falsifiable in the first three verses of the Holy Bible, well...

252 posted on 02/15/2013 12:03:20 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: ejonesie22

The Bible is silent on that matter. Let me be more clear: I claim no superiority to any man, just less ignorance on some matters.

What would you surmise to be the source of pre-Genesis matter?


253 posted on 02/15/2013 12:06:55 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD; ejonesie22

” Does the Bible say what you think it says? No.”

Spirited: As pointed out previously, what you “personally” believe with regard to creation, God, and the Bible depends upon your worldview presuppositions, which you refuse to define.

But though your cowardice keeps you from making known your worldview, your unrelenting attacks upon creation ex nihilo reveal that you embrace the only other option: materialism.

By embracing materialism you affirm naturalism (neo-paganism) as the foundation of your belief system. As a modern pagan you have nothing either truthful or useful to say about God’s Revelation.


254 posted on 02/15/2013 12:07:17 PM PST by spirited irish
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To: 1010RD
Your post speak for themselves, no need for me to assemble or disassemble anything.

You cannot say Genesis is clear if you yourself state it say NOTHING what so ever about what went or was before. Indeed that leaves open all sorts of ideas that truly cannot be proven, yours or ours included. HOWEVER the word is very clear, and an all powerful single God in the universe of whom it clearly says CREATED the heavens and the earth can create from nothing or anything. Given that we know from his work he is far more powerful than the "once man god" of the LDS...

If that is of such profound ignorance to the point of being completely wrong then it is a simple matter of stating where the material came from he whipped into “ordered”...

Oh and save me the disparage bilge, I mean really...

255 posted on 02/15/2013 12:22:40 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: 1010RD
There is no pre genesis matter, so nothing to surmise. God (the real one) is all powerful and can CREATE anything, including matter itself.

Seems I have heard that create some where.

And I will refrain from comment on your “I make no claim of superiority” bit, again your posts speak for themselves, thankfully.

256 posted on 02/15/2013 12:26:56 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: 1010RD
There is no pre genesis matter, so nothing to surmise. God (the real one) is all powerful and can CREATE anything, including matter itself.

Seems I have heard that create some where.

And I will refrain from comment on your “I make no claim of superiority” bit, again your posts speak for themselves, thankfully.

257 posted on 02/15/2013 12:27:17 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: spirited irish
Why ?Mormonism [insert any organized religion here] will Surrender to Homosexuality

Every organized religion on planet earth will do and say whatever is necessary to enhance its money, power, and prestige. Everything else they claim to represent is far down the list of priorities.

If there is money being collected by the church, it is corrupted.

If there is real estate or other valuable assets owned or controlled by the church, it is corrupted.

If there are people to be controlled and manipulated by the church, especially women and children, it is corrupted.

Thus has it always been, since the first fat, lazy, cowardly, dishonest caveman created the first official religion, so that he could stay behind with the women and children while the other men went out and took their chances at getting trampled by the mammoth.

From there, religion has gone perpetually downhill, and God is NOT favorably impressed with any of them.

258 posted on 02/15/2013 12:28:20 PM PST by meadsjn
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To: spirited irish
Nonsense again. Stop reading somebody else’s word and look to God's Word. My worldview on this subject couldn’t be clearer or more Biblically consistent: Genesis doesn't support ex nihilo creation in the least bit.

It's an invention of men who want to define God. They can't and they're fools for trying. Worse, they've mislead many, but we're God-blessed to have Mr. Gutenburg and all the martyrs who died so that we could have a Bible to read for our very own self, plus an Internet to search out the truth.

Imagine an ant stumbling upon a watch. Though the ant is familiar with night and day and perhaps aware of the seasons the watch means nothing to the ant. That's man's mind to God's, yet we have the Holy Ghost and the Holy Bible and those willing to share and teach the truth.

259 posted on 02/15/2013 12:28:46 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: ejonesie22

First, I don’t set the standard, God does. His Holy Bible is clear on ex nihilo creation, there is pre-Genesis matter being worked on. That doesn’t destroy the majesty, power and wonder of His creation. It just means it wasn’t, as recored in the Bible, ex nihilo.

Reading it again will help:

Here’s Genesis 1: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-1.htm and 2: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-2.htm

Young’s Literal Translation makes it clearest:

In the beginning of God’s preparing the heavens and the earth — the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,

That’s verse 1 and 2 from Young’s Literal. It is obvious now, no?

The Biblical text states clearly that the earth in its void/formless/empty state was there to be worked on already. It’s existance doesn’t undermine the power, authority or majesty of God.

His first act is contained in Gen. 1:3. He tames chaos/disorder by immediately declaring light. There are a lot of great scientific attributes of light that make this beginning so amazing. There are also wonderful religious metaphors for light, not the least of which is joy.

So enjoy yourself, God and His Holy Word.


260 posted on 02/15/2013 12:30:40 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: spirited irish
Welcome to the game SI. It is useful to keep these guys talking, the song and dance becomes rather obivous.

You ask a person if its raining and they spend hours and days and months telling you everything but the actaul weather, well, something is up.

261 posted on 02/15/2013 12:31:15 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ejonesie22

Sorry for the repost, but you’ve got to read this:

First, I don’t set the standard, God does. His Holy Bible is clear on ex nihilo creation, there is pre-Genesis matter being worked on. That doesn’t destroy the majesty, power and wonder of His creation. It just means it wasn’t, as recored in the Bible, ex nihilo.

Reading it again will help:

Here’s Genesis 1: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-1.htm and 2: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-2.htm

Young’s Literal Translation makes it clearest:

In the beginning of God’s preparing the heavens and the earth — the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,

That’s verse 1 and 2 from Young’s Literal. It is obvious now, no?

The Biblical text states clearly that the earth in its void/formless/empty state was there to be worked on already. It’s existance doesn’t undermine the power, authority or majesty of God.

His first act is contained in Gen. 1:3. He tames chaos/disorder by immediately declaring light. There are a lot of great scientific attributes of light that make this beginning so amazing. There are also wonderful religious metaphors for light, not the least of which is joy.

So enjoy yourself, God and His Holy Word.


262 posted on 02/15/2013 12:31:45 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: ejonesie22

First, I don’t set the standard, God does. His Holy Bible is clear on ex nihilo creation, there is pre-Genesis matter being worked on. That doesn’t destroy the majesty, power and wonder of His creation. It just means it wasn’t, as recored in the Bible, ex nihilo.

Reading it again will help:

Here’s Genesis 1: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-1.htm and 2: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-2.htm

Young’s Literal Translation makes it clearest:

In the beginning of God’s preparing the heavens and the earth — the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,

That’s verse 1 and 2 from Young’s Literal. It is obvious now, no?

The Biblical text states clearly that the earth in its void/formless/empty state was there to be worked on already. It’s existance doesn’t undermine the power, authority or majesty of God.

His first act is contained in Gen. 1:3. He tames chaos/disorder by immediately declaring light. There are a lot of great scientific attributes of light that make this beginning so amazing. There are also wonderful religious metaphors for light, not the least of which is joy.

So enjoy yourself, God and His Holy Word.


263 posted on 02/15/2013 12:33:03 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: meadsjn
Don’t know that I totally agree with all that, but then again there is also a lot of merit to what you say.
264 posted on 02/15/2013 12:34:18 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ejonesie22; spirited irish

It is useful to keep talking, only if you’re able to be taught. Otherwise, you’re wasting my time and wearying me.

This is my last post on this thread:

First, I don’t set the standard, God does. His Holy Bible is clear on ex nihilo creation, there is pre-Genesis matter being worked on. That doesn’t destroy the majesty, power and wonder of His creation. It just means it wasn’t, as recored in the Bible, ex nihilo.

Reading it again will help:

Here’s Genesis 1: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-1.htm and 2: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-2.htm

Young’s Literal Translation makes it clearest:

In the beginning of God’s preparing the heavens and the earth — the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,

That’s verse 1 and 2 from Young’s Literal. It is obvious now, no?

The Biblical text states clearly that the earth in its void/formless/empty state was there to be worked on already. It’s existance doesn’t undermine the power, authority or majesty of God.

His first act is contained in Gen. 1:3. He tames chaos/disorder by immediately declaring light. There are a lot of great scientific attributes of light that make this beginning so amazing. There are also wonderful religious metaphors for light, not the least of which is joy.

So enjoy yourself, God and His Holy Word.


265 posted on 02/15/2013 12:37:10 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
New International Version (©1984)
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
New Living Translation (©2007)
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

English Standard Version (©2001)
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

International Standard Version (©2012)
In the beginning, God created the universe.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
In the beginning God created heaven and earth.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

American King James Version
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

American Standard Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Douay-Rheims Bible
In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.

Darby Bible Translation
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

English Revised Version
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Webster's Bible Translation
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

World English Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Young's Literal Translation
In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth —

One out of 17 ain't bad I guess.

But it still begs the original question, this formless Earth, where did it come from. Speculate if you need to.

266 posted on 02/15/2013 12:44:07 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: 1010RD

I got it the first two times, including the one where you told me it was important and to read it again.

But thanks anyways...


267 posted on 02/15/2013 12:46:12 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: 1010RD
Your humility is charming.

But one will have to forgive a lowly cretin such as myself if I am not swayed by the words of one who themselves will not speak for what belief system they stand for, nor speak as to what they base the ability to remove ignorance from us ignorant (and obviously petulant) rubes.

I know its silly but if some one wants to “remove my ignorance” i would like some basis on which to assure myself that they are not actually making it real...

268 posted on 02/15/2013 12:53:27 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: 1010RD
Your humility is charming.

But one will have to forgive a lowly cretin such as myself if I am not swayed by the words of one who themselves will not speak for what belief system they stand for, nor speak as to what they base the ability to remove ignorance from us ignorant (and obviously petulant) rubes.

I know its silly but if some one wants to “remove my ignorance” i would like some basis on which to assure myself that they are not actually making it real...

269 posted on 02/15/2013 12:53:50 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Hoodat

I don’t like the religion of Mormonism, but I live the homosexual “religion” even less, so Mormonism succumbing to the gay mafia is not good in my book


270 posted on 02/15/2013 1:18:22 PM PST by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: 1010RD; ejonesie22

Let’s see, first you self-righteously reject the words of men (Church Fathers) and then you hypocritically apply your favored interpretation, pre-existent matter, an ancient concept secretly revealed by disembodied, malign intelligences to MEN, not God.

It is not that Our Lord did not create ex nihilo but rather that proud, willful men who prefer pagan concepts, i.e., of a limited deity and pre-existent matter, reject Truth in preference of the Lie.


271 posted on 02/15/2013 1:25:11 PM PST by spirited irish
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To: ejonesie22

It’s 17/17. Gen. 1:1 isn’t any action, it’s an introductory statement. Read the Hebrew here: http://biblos.com/genesis/1-1.htm

The Hebrew indicates forming, shaping, creating, but from an existing item. http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/1254.htm

53 verb shape, create (compare Arabic probably loan-word, form, fashion by cutting, shape out, pare a reed for writing, a stick for an arrow,....

In the beginning is simply placing it at the start of the Biblical narrative, not just of Genesis, but the entire Masoretic text.

http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/7225.htm

So every example you give is the same thing and none of them imply an act of creation at that moment. It starts in Gen. 1:3, but the introduction of Gen. 1:1 is followed by what God had to work with and what state it was in, see Gen. 1:2.

As to where the pre-Genesis matter came from the Bible doesn’t say and neither will I. Clearly, God is capable of creating anything at anytime.

One interesting item to consider is how increasingly precise measuring instruments have destroyed the concept of “nothing”. In math we think of nothing as a null set, but when measuring the presence or absence of a physical item the fineness of the measurement is what counts. For a long time zero held, then we developed the technology to more precisely measure and nothing became something.


272 posted on 02/15/2013 3:28:53 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: ejonesie22

I am in no position to judge you or any man or cretin. I believe in and stand for the Bible. It is the only tool I’ve used to shed light on a Gospel topic. It’s valuable, but I’m not responsible for it. Jesus Christ is. Your argument is with Him and His Word.


273 posted on 02/15/2013 3:29:15 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: spirited irish; ejonesie22

I am not self-righteously rejecting the words of the “Church Fathers”, just your interpretation of them and pointing out the limitations of human thought and perception. Feel free to accept what they said, but read their words direclty. They’re available online. The earliest Church Fathers don’t confirm either ex nihilo creation or the modern conception of the Trinity.

As I said earlier, believe what you want to believe. I simply used our common belief in the Bible to discuss your misconception about the creation story. I presume you’re Catholic. I commend your appeal to authority and understand it. Withouth authority and without a Priesthood of God you’ve got paganism, i.e. self-worship. It’s the warning contained in the first four of the Ten Commandments. Outside of Catholicism and Orthodoxy churches are tyrannies of democracy and anarcho-Christian in outlook where parishoners choose their own god. That’s wrong, unBiblical and unChristian.

We’re warned over and over again against these false teachers who would alter God’s word. That said, any reading of the Bible at nearly any point will show that apostasy is the standard form for humanity and that God is always working to bring people back to him. Moses took apostate Israel out of Egypt. The prophets throughout worked against apostasy. Jesus ministered to apostate Israel and they were certain that they had the truth.

What you see is that apostasy is the steady state. Those in majoritarian control rarely have the truth and yet there is always a remnant remaining, working miracles, preserving the ordinances and maintaining the Gospel. That’s the story of the Bible. Take a look.


274 posted on 02/15/2013 3:42:57 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

“This is my last post on this thread:”

So along with the fact you refuse to acknowledge your own Church, you refuse to give any substance to your qualifications on spiritual matters you also say one thing and do another.

And you ask me to look to you to clear any ignorance you think I have?

Really?


275 posted on 02/15/2013 6:43:25 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ejonesie22

My Church? Christ’s

My qualifications? I am a polymath, lead by the Light of Christ and His Holy Spirit with the same qualifications as Jesus’ followers throughout all time.

When have the learned doctors of the Old or New Testaments ever been with Him?

Am I asking you to look to me to cure your ignorance? No, absolutely not. That’s why throughout this discussion I’ve referenced only God’s Holy Word. Reason and faith are all you need to set your path straight, but it is a narrow path and easily missed without a child’s open mind and faith.

Really? Yes, really.


276 posted on 02/15/2013 6:59:15 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

Many places claim to be Christ’s Church. Many of them are, and more than a few clearly are not despite their best efforts at verbal and spiritual gymnastics.

It is more than interesting that you so avoid naming your Church specifically and have done so for some time. It is rather an easy thing, people do it every day. One asks of another “What Church do you attend?”, the other replies “Methodist” or “Catholic” or “Baptist” or even “LDS” without all the cute replies and coy answers.

Such actions scream that SOMETHING is up.

As it is you seem to claim no more basis of authority or education than any of the rest of us give or take, so you will excuse us if we take your claims of “teaching us” and exposing our alleged ignorance, especially in light of all the cute games lo these many months with more than a few grains of salt.

A great polymath such as yourself who holds such knowledge and understanding can comprehend our dilemma...


277 posted on 02/15/2013 8:39:22 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: 1010RD; ejonesie22

“throughout this discussion I’ve referenced only God’s Holy Word...”

Spirited: A limited deity that emerged over time out of self-generated or so-called pre-existent matter is not holy. And no matter how often one communes with it, it cannot respond because it cannot think, speak, or move since it is a nature deity.

From the Babylonians, Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Upanishad Hindus, Luciferian Theosophists, high degree Masons, dialectical materialists, Joseph Smith/LDs, and occult spiritist New Age, the worship of matter is a constant. All of these nature systems have exchanged the truth about God for the Lie of matter worship (Romans)

1010RD does not understand Paul’s meaning in Romans. If he did he would see that Paul is describing not just the Epicureans, Stoics, etc. but LDs as well.

If you really seek the living, supernatural Holy Word then you must repent of matter worship and seek Him in communion with true Christians. Doubtless ejonsie would gladly help you in this.


278 posted on 02/16/2013 3:29:17 AM PST by spirited irish
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To: ejonesie22

Exactly and few know of the doctrine, hence the need to read God’s Holy Writ. There are those more concerned with “credentials” than with the Bible.

Instead, look to Christ’s example. Which Apostle was a trained theologian? What wages were the Apostles paid? Christ’s Church, if it exists on earth in our day, must follow the plan he set out, not the ideas of men.

What bothers you most is the clarity of the Bible itself. It stands in contradiction of what you want to believe; what you want to be true. You’re unable to refute what you have seen demonstrated because you know it is true, as true as the Holy Bible and God’s own Word. Concentrate on that. Pray on that. Ponder it in your heart and mind.

Stop thinking about anything else. All is fleeting, but the Kingdom of God and His Will be done. Take care, FRiend.


279 posted on 02/16/2013 3:45:22 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: spirited irish

Avoidance can be an effective defense mechanism, yet aren’t Gen. 1:1-3 as presented to you not a part of the Holy Bible?

Is it not clear that they speak, clearly and directly, against creation ex nihilo?


280 posted on 02/16/2013 4:13:50 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: ejonesie22; 1010RD

Somewhere, there are 37 angels trying to crowd their way onto an already over-filled pinhead...


281 posted on 02/16/2013 5:08:59 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: meadsjn
Every organized religion on planet earth will do and say whatever is necessary to enhance its money, power, and prestige.

Even YOURS?

282 posted on 02/16/2013 5:09:51 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: 1010RD
Stop reading somebody else’s word and look to God's Word.


John 1 (niv)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

283 posted on 02/16/2013 5:11:33 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Cronos
I don’t like the religion of Mormonism, but I live the homosexual “religion” even less, so Mormonism succumbing to the gay mafia is not good in my book

It's my prayer that you'll STOP altogether.












(I know; but the Devil made me do it! ;^)













284 posted on 02/16/2013 5:13:43 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: 1010RD
I simply used our common belief in the Bible to discuss your misconception about the creation story.

Nothing wrong with this; but you DO realize that GOD has a LOT more to say about things; right??



--MormonDude(May I call you my friend?)


http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss354/elsieel/MormonCereal_zpsbbc97031.jpghttp://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss354/elsieel/MormonCereal_zpsbbc97031.jpghttp://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss354/elsieel/MormonCereal_zpsbbc97031.jpghttp://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss354/elsieel/MormonCereal_zpsbbc97031.jpghttp://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss354/elsieel/MormonCereal_zpsbbc97031.jpg

285 posted on 02/16/2013 5:17:08 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ejonesie22
Drat!!!

I mask for a calculator and these bozos give me a CRACKER! again...



286 posted on 02/16/2013 5:20:11 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: 1010RD

Like I said, interesting...

A self-proclaimed polymath who cannot answer a simple question....

Nothing of the Bible bothers me, indeed its clarity goes back to the original argument. God created the heavens and the Earth, very clear...


287 posted on 02/16/2013 5:21:53 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: 1010RD
Avoidance can be an effective defense mechanism, yet aren’t Gen. 1:1-3 as presented to you not a part of the Holy Bible?

Just as much as...

Genesis 3:1

Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ...

288 posted on 02/16/2013 5:22:26 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: spirited irish

Well I’m no polymath...


289 posted on 02/16/2013 5:23:46 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ejonesie22
A self-proclaimed polymath who cannot answer a simple question....

"We are smart...



290 posted on 02/16/2013 5:30:18 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: 1010RD

To all who know that God transcends His creation, is all-powerful, and neither co-equal with or limited by matter, Gen. ex nihilo is abundantly clear. But for all who worship matter it is apriori not clear.

You have made it very clear that you worship matter and a limited god-man who supposedly emerged out of matter over time much like the Egyptian Sun-God Ra. The god you call holy, and who perhaps you hope to become like, is merely an idol you speak for, so of course your idol speaks against creation ex nihlo but wholeheartedly approves of pre-existent matter.


291 posted on 02/16/2013 9:12:55 AM PST by spirited irish
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To: ejonesie22

Gen 1:2 is reasonably read as matter pre-Genesis. God acts upon it and then the creation begins. You can accept your reading, but what I’ve done is critical and powerful.

I’ve proven that ex nihilo is simply an interpretation, not the only conclusion. It is possible that matter existed pre-Genesis and in my opinion probable.

That matter existed prior to the narrative in Genesis does nothing to reduce the power, authority or majesty of God. I would also postulate that you know as much about God, creation and His purposes as an ant does about a wristwatch.

Recognize that throughout this discussion you’ve not referenced the Bible to support your view. You’ve not refuted any of my arguments. That’s because you cannot. You can only express an opinoin that is based on the opinions of other men, not the Bible’s own text.

From now on you cannot arbitrarily spout a lie that it is impossible that matter existed pre-Genesis. That’s what really matters. Can you learn?


292 posted on 02/16/2013 4:04:35 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: spirited irish
To all who know that God transcends His creation, is all-powerful, and neither co-equal with or limited by matter, Gen. ex nihilo is abundantly clear. But for all who worship matter it is apriori not clear.

We agree that God transcends His creation, is all-powerful and is not co-equal to or limited by matter. Ex nihilo is not abundantly clear. In fact, I've proved that it is not even a reasonable reading of Genesis 1:1-3.

Are you familiar with the meaning of the word abunantly? If you can prove your case with abundant evidence then do so. Otherwise, admit you're wrong and go on to learn and grow.

You have made it very clear that you worship matter and a limited god-man who supposedly emerged out of matter over time much like the Egyptian Sun-God Ra.

That is a lie and anyone reading this thread will see that. I am not a idolator and do not worship matter. If you persist then you mark yourself as a liar.

The important thing is that using God's Holy Bible I've proved that pre-Genesis matter is a reasonable and the probable reading of Genesis 1:1-3. Note that you've never referenced any part of the Bible. You made mention of the "Church Fathers", but a reading of the quote you provided in support of your case proves nothing about ex nihilo creation, no support at all.

Fundamentally, you will never again be able to state that pre-Genesis matter is a heresy as it is now proved to you to be the proper reading of Genesis 1:1-3. You can continue on in your opinion, but it is only an opinion and an inaccurate one.

293 posted on 02/16/2013 4:16:04 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

Like I said...


294 posted on 02/16/2013 4:17:15 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: 1010RD
I think I see the problem we have here.

You state:
“Recognize that throughout this discussion you’ve not referenced the Bible to support your view. You’ve not refuted any of my argumenealkts.”

Yet I have stated Genesis including giving a post of various translations of 1:1 from one of your own postings.

Reality is an issue for you. Not uncommon I have seen it with more than a few Mormons on these threads. I often wonder if it is a real phenomena or just a game of acting like something is said and/or not said that in reality was or not. Same vein as playing games answering questions about Church affiliation, or claiming the Bible as a sole resource after speaking of Eastern Philosophies that “support” ones position or telling a poster their interpretation of the Early Fathers is wrong and then abandoning them as a reference point.

Look when one spends years knowing 2+2=4, being taught it, seeing it proven again and again and seeing that the vast majority of legitimate scholarship mathematically proves it as well, the guys coming along and saying 2+2=5 really are entertaining, especially when they are claiming ignorance on the part of those who know the answer is 4, and scream those folks are obviously incapable of learning and lying when they say 2+2=4.

I am sorry but I am too smart to learn something as fact that isn't no matter how many times my self appointed "teacher" screams I am ignorant and incabpapbe of learning.

That is one main reason I am not LDS. I tend to reality and real fact...

295 posted on 02/16/2013 4:56:08 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ejonesie22

Do you really think this thread is about you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6UAYGxiRwU


296 posted on 02/16/2013 6:54:33 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

Like I said, issue with reality.

Have you seen your posts....


297 posted on 02/16/2013 7:06:58 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ejonesie22; 1010RD
Everything you want to know about Genesis 1:1 begins here:

Matthew 6:33

298 posted on 02/16/2013 8:49:00 PM PST by Hoodat ("As for God, His way is perfect" - Psalm 18:30)
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To: Hoodat

Exactly...


299 posted on 02/17/2013 6:56:22 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: 1010RD

What amazes me 1010 is that I observe the same MO that Obama & Co uses on trying to undermined and destroy the Republican party comes very natural to some.

I am really proud of the good Americans who choose not to stoop to conquer not use any kind of behavior that detracts from who they are children of the Lord.

A good example the the Sequester which the Low Information Voters are clueless and because what ever Obama says makes it so yet it was Obama’s strawman and he been able to play that game over and over.

We Americans are being malign endlessly yet it is impossible to correct the distortions and character assassination of this nation for now, but the truth will in the Lord time be made known.


300 posted on 02/23/2013 12:30:15 AM PST by restornu (Love One Another)
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