Skip to comments.Pope Prediction: 10 Reasons Cardinal Burke Will Be the Next Pope
Posted on 03/06/2013 6:54:19 AM PST by NYer
H/T to freeper Heart-Rest for the link. Please keep ALL of the cardinals in your prayers. Live coverage on EWTN at 11 am ET today as we pray along with the cardinals. May the Holy Spirit guide them.
By most counts, he is a long shot..he didn't even make the "Sweet Sistine"
I will pray for him...
The Sweet Sistine-:)
I’m not at all Roman Catholic, but it’s funny how liberals are seeking to have one of their own installed.
As Dr. Marshall points out ... "The problem is that the Burke naysayers are thinking like journalists and voters."
He also makes an astute observation - we need to think like one of those cardinals. From all the interviews and telecasts I have watched, these men recognize the gravity of this decision. Cardinal Dolan, whose natural disposition is jovial and affability, had a "deer in the headlights" look about him when discussing its personal impact on him. I am watching video from the Sistine Chapel of the workers laying the plywood foundation on which will be constructed the tables, installation of the stove and other fascinating aspects of the conclave. They just had the camera follow the path the cardinals will take on their way into the Sistine Chapel, walls covered with religious frescoes and, as you probably know, the back wall of the chapel is covered with Michelangelo's Last Judgement.
That is a very imposing fresco!
It’s going to be a double dose of March Madness...
I vote “No” on the guy who wears a paisley dress and feathered hat. My 11 year-old son looked over my shoulder and immediately said “Who’s she?”
I could just see that picture plastered on news shows all over the planet as they try to explain how the Church is getting past the pedophile scandal.
There has been almost no commentary to the effect that the heads of BOTH the Catholic Church AND the Anglican Communion resigned/retired...
Indeed, the enthronement of the new Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, is scheduled for the 21st of this month..
Interesting confluence..I very much like Welby..his theology is within the evangelical tradition of the Anglican Communion, and he appears to be the antithesis of Rowan Williams, of whom the less said, the better.
Who says that God doesn't work his mysteries in ways t hat we mere mortals can't fathom....
This comment from an x-catholic who left the church because too many of the priest around here NEVER gave sermons in church or speak out in public about abortion, homosexuality..... If it's not made clear how to live and what is right and wrong, what good are they? They do not take action against the Catholic politicians/leaders who lead people into believing sin is not sin by their inaction. Ex-communicate the pelosi's....and watch the people who maybe haven't left the church, but don't attend anymore come home as the church has been asking. Al Gore's rally at a Catholic Church helped me decide that I was following the blind. The church I was baptized in would let a democrat speak at their festival, but would not allow a republican to speak. I pray that the church puts in a man who will stand against evil. We also see this in too many of the Protestant churches. It's as if many religious leaders don't really fear or believe in God anymore. God help us all!
Heheheheheh,once the smoke goes up we have no idea who will walk through the door.
Praise God and Cardinal Burke!
Thank you so much, dearest NYer and Heart-Rest.
Two thoughts, one pro-, one con-:
The Church in America is the epicenter and chief promoter of the feminist and homosexualist heresies. The Church in the world will not be free of these until the Church in America is purged. Presuming the Holy Spirit concurs, only an American can get to the bottom of the mess the American bishops have created.
The Church is a worldwide Church, and is strong in most places (Europe and America excepted). A Pope from the developing world could condemn, and then basically ignore, the American heresy and build the future of the Church elsewhere.
In 1978 the cardinals slapped communism in the face by selecting a cardinal from Poland. In 2013, I would love to see history repeat and secularism/relativism be slapped in the face by the election of cardinal Burke.
They’ve gotta change the vestments. He looks like an old lady in a Communist gardening club in that photo.
....But you never know, this upcoming conclave could very well produce a “surprise” Pope.
Take a look around the world ... North America, South America, Europe, Australia ... this problem is global, not local.
The Vatican has always been a hotbed of politics, and secret deals..."inside Godball" if you will, I suspect that Benedict has a good idea who he wants to succeed him, and has done as much as possible to make sure that happens...
You are correct that the problem is worldwide, but if it can be broken in America the worst will be over.
Way off base. Ain’t happening!
“Burke called the US Democratic party “the party of death” and accused Barack Obama of being “anti-life and anti-family.””
Sounds like when John Paul called out the Soviet Union.
To this outsider, Burke sounds like he would be a superb choice. But at that point, it’s open warfare within the Catholic Church.
Got a link?
Go to Latin Mass, you will find what you seek.
Does it matter more what the man does, or what the man looks like while doing it?
An American for Pope?
Raymond Leo Burke (born June 30, 1948) is an American Cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church. He is the current Cardinal Prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura, having previously served as Archbishop of St. Louis (20032008) and Bishop of La Crosse (19942003).
bio at wikipedia — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Leo_Burke
Burke is who I'd like to see them select but I thought everyone had ruled him out right away.
We cannot know what the Holy Spirit wants, just pray. Burke is my choice too.
Go to Latin Mass, you will find what you seek.
I grew up hearing the latin mass and I got nothing out of it, but boredom. If people would have understood what God was telling them, they would have been better people. Why would not hearing and understanding God word be better?
....But you never know, this upcoming conclave could very well produce a surprise Pope.
The Holy Spirit has been known to do that. I really like Cardinal Burke, but we might ALL be surprised at the outcome of this conclave.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Father, send down your Spirit over the conclave. Let the Holy Spirit inspire the hearts of the cardinals, that they may choose the man most pleasing to You, as Successor of Peter and Your Vicar on Earth. May Mary, Your Mother and Mother of the Church, be our Advocate. Amen.
Those who look to the Church for entertainment and to alleviate boredom won’t agree.
“Burke called the US Democratic party ‘the party of death” and accused Barack Obama of being “anti-life and anti-family.’”
Sounds good to me!
Then he says, "But I don't win all that many bets except on Baseball".
You're not the only one thinking along those lines.
I am sorry that you were bored at Latin Mass. No saint has ever found it to be so. Please try it again, read and pray the beautiful and ancient prayers by which we worship God. Nothing is required of you but to pray, to worship and listen to God. In a missal the Latin is on one side and the English on the other, it makes everything easy.
"When I am an old woman I shall wear
"With a red hat which doesn't go, and doesn't suit me.
"And I shall spend my pension on brandy and summer gloves
"And satin sandals, and say we've no money for butter...."
A lot of people say that. Fr. Groeschel said that the mumbling way priests said Mass back in the day was not very great. He wasn’t against it, but...
On the other hand, latin is the language of the Church. It is an otherwise unused language, so no one can move in and corrupt the meaning of the Mass and no national favoritism can be shown.
A priest, I think also Fr. Groeschel, said, a few years ago, the enemy hates Latin. It’s nice then to play the Mass or Gregorian chant in the house.
EWTN just showed the cardinals praying the rosary in latin at vespers in prep for the conclave. No no one nation would be favored, among other things. My missal has the Lord’s Prayer and the Hail Mary in latin so I am able to follow along.
The priest is very reverent and clear. They process and close off the altar. The priest faces in the same direction as the congregation. So there’s never an expectation and inevitable disappointment of being entertained. THat’s what lunch hour is for.
I always want people to see at our school, the kids file into the sanctuary on fridays for the Mass in Latin. They pray along, learning the language, realizing they are praying the same prayers that they do in english on sundays.
When the boys chant in four part harmony during communion, when they would rather be pushing each other around or causing trouble for some teacher, it makes you cry, really.
Do not feel bad, having grown up NOT knowing much about Latin as a language of prayer let alone go to a Latin Mass, the newer mass is all I know and this is one who is in her 50’s.
If you are dissatisfied with the quality of the priests at your local parish because they were too liberal, vote with your feet. Others feel the same way; you can join with them, or drive to another parish. The resources are amazing--online Divine Office, online video homilies, TV, radio, instructional materials. We have almost an embarrassment of riches. But leaving the Church and worshipping elsewhere, which implicitly means denying or disbelieving in the teachings of the Church and adopting the heretical teachings of some other, man-made outfit, isn't the way to cope with bad homilies.
Here is a video by Dr Scott Hahn that absolutely convicts us on the need to get back to Mass. The last few minutes, starting at 1:06, are overwhelming:Hahn at Steubenville If you watch this, I think you'll realize that your boredom--that is, your failure to detect entertainment value in Christ's actual Presence before us--is absolutely at the bottom of the list of life's priorities. This made me go running back to mass the morning after I saw it, chastened but grateful. I hope it will have the same effect on you.
Dear friends, while I do not know your ages, I can guess that Linda F and I are fairly close in age since I too grew up with the Latin Mass. Since that was the ONLY mass, no one questioned it. For the benefit of more youthful freepers who are just discovering the TLM, please bear with me on this, okay?
Back in the pre VCII 50s and 60s, just about everyone attended mass, not from love so much as from fear of burning in hell for all eternity. In those days, shopping malls, if they even existed, were closed on Sundays, as were supermarkets, and just about any other convenience store.
Churches were packed. There were no microphones, nor air conditioning just the steady whir of large fans blowing hot air around the packed church, drowning out the words of the priest, who was facing ad orientem. Altar servers responded on behalf of the congregation; the choir sang, also on behalf of the congregation. It was totally non participatory. As such, the older ladies in attendance would pray the rosary. The sound of clicking beads were heard interspersed with the mumbled prayers and responses and choral music. Linda, do you share a similar memory?
Post VCII, changes arrived at lightening speed. Each Sunday, we would find something new had occurred: altars were turned around and the congregation was asked to respond along with the altar servers. No matter how poor our voices, we were now asked to sing along with the choir. It took a while for people to get the hang of this; many were reluctant since it was not permissible prior to this council. It didn't take long before EMHCs were introduced and that also was a shock to the system, since we were taught that only the priest could touch the consecrated host. We adjusted.
Several years ago, after battling liturgical abuse at my RC parish, a fellow freeper pointed me to a TLM celebrated in a nearby parish. I dusted off my pre VCII missal and looked forward to finally experiencing a reverent liturgy. I settled into a pew and looked around. Nearby was an older woman on her knees praying the rosary (I could hear the clicking of the beads). Several pews were filled with young families: dad in a suit, mom wearing a dress and holding a baby, 3 young children in similar attire holding the same, small missal I used at their age, and a few teen girls wearing maxi skirts. The priest rang the bell as he entered the sanctuary. There were the two altar servers in chasuble and cassock. The mass began and I strained to hear the words of the priest. The altar servers responded in Latin, the choir sang, the rosary beads clacked, the fans whirled and I felt as though I had just stepped out of a time machine, back into the 50s. I wanted to join my response to those of the altar servers but noticed that no one else did, so I kept quiet, When the choir began to sing a hymn I love, I began to join them and drew the attention of those in the pews. I shut up. It was the first and last time I ever attended the TLM.
I returned to the NO liturgy at my parish and continued to battle the liturgical abuse until I witnessed a EMHC drop a consecrated host on the sanctuary floor, bend over to pick it up and redeposit it in her glass communion bowl. It was the final straw. I bowed my head and asked our Lord to guide me to "a holy priest, a reverent liturgy and a community where my God given abilities could be of assistance". That same day, I drew up a list of other parishes within a certain radius of home. Each Sunday I attended mass at a different parish, always repeating the same prayer. A fellow freeper suggested I include any Eastern Catholic Churches that might be nearby. There were two: Maronite and Ukrainian. On March 7 that year, the Maronite Church surfaced on the list. The liturgy immediately transported me to the East, where Jesus, Mary and the Apostles had lived. Its reverence spoke to my heart and I was transfixed by the prayers, many of which were written by St. Ephrem and even the Apostles themselves. The liturgy was chanted and clouds of incense rose heavenward. The priest explained that the Maronite Church retains the language of Jesus for the words of consecration. Hearing him chant in Aramaic was like being at the Last Supper. Communion was by intinction and on the tongue. Only the priest, bishop or deacon may distribute communion so there were no armies of EMHCs rushing up to the sanctuary. I recognized that this was our Lord's answer to my prayer.
Since joining the parish, I have shared my God-given talents, serving as VP of the women's sodality, elected to the Parish Council, made Director for Religious Education, developing a program that grew from a few children to the largest in the parish history. When the pastor decided to move us to a former Methodist Church, we needed money to refurbish the building. With God's assistance, I was able to have the church recognized as an historic landmark and successfully write 2 grants that generated nearly $500,000. (I had never written a grant and left everything in God's hands).
The point I want to make here is that I never looked to the Church for entertainment and to alleviate boredom. All I ever wanted was a parish where I could worship our Lord in a reverent manner. I am gratified to see the enthusiasm of younger catholics towards the Traditional Latin Mass. Just keep in mind that your experience is not the same as what we actually lived. Your TLM communities are small, like my Maronite community. We are all most blessed to be members of the Catholic Church and the various expressions of the liturgies celebrated in her 22 Eastern and Western Churches. It is unfair to draw the comparison of someone's recollected memory to your more recent one. The liturgy may be the same; the way in which it is presently celebrated is vastly different.
The TLM Mass I once attended recently, is a bad memory. There was no comprehension at all of what was happening on the altar and the church building was not only the ugliest churches I’ve been in (see “the Cube and the Cathedral”, G. Weigel, it was the ugliest building I’ve been in. So, as we in the congregation were ignored as participants - excluded, really- there was nothing to meditate on, but ugliness.
I would not call it reverent.
There is a novus ordo mass across town. We go when we can. The priest is reverent, not because it is latin, but because he is reverent. He is so when he says Mass in the vernaculr, english.
When people say they’re bored in Mass I tend to perhaps unfoundedly, perhaps not, but from long experience, that there is a lot more to the situation.
Latin isn’t good because it is reverent, but it isn’t bad because it’s mumbled. Where a priest is reverent, the congregation is reverent, and vice versa.
Latin is the language of the Catholic Church, with all respect and reverence due Vatican II which certainly does not obstruct Latin, as seen today when the college of cardinals enthusiastically prayed the rosary in latin en masse.
But mumbled latin is no more latin than is unintelligible english, english.
Oh my goodness! I remember sitting next to my mother at mass right after I made my First Holy Communion. I remember following along with my new missal with both the Latin and English. I knew exactly what was going on. Years later, I finally got to go to a Latin mass again and I sat there and cried tears of joy. How beautiful and reverent. How I wish we had even a reverent Novus Ordo mass where I live!
Burke is 80/1 on paddypower right now. I feel like tipping off my UK relatives. Put a pony on him now, and I’ll reimburse them later LOL
I totally agree! My pastor is young, monastic and humble. When he says the Prayer of Elevation, his eyes focus upwards and our eyes are drawn as well. He is totally immersed in the worship.
Latin is the language of the Catholic Church
Correction: Latin is the official language of the Latin Church.
Although it is not widely known in our Western world, the Catholic Church is actually a communion of Churches. According to the Constitution on the Church of the Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, the Catholic Church is understood to be "a corporate body of Churches," united with the Pope of Rome, who serves as the guardian of unity (LG, no. 23). At present there are 22 Churches that comprise the Catholic Church. The new Code of Canon Law, promulgated by Pope John Paul II, uses the phrase "autonomous ritual Churches" to describe these various Churches (canon 112). Each Church has its own hierarchy, spirituality, and theological perspective. Because of the particularities of history, there is only one Western Catholic Church, while there are 21 Eastern Catholic Churches. The Western Church, known officially as the Latin Church, is the largest of the Catholic Churches. It is immediately subject to the Roman Pontiff as Patriarch of the West. The Eastern Catholic Churches are each led by a Patriarch, Major Archbishop, or Metropolitan, who governs their Church together with a synod of bishops. Through the Congregation for Oriental Churches, the Roman Pontiff works to assure the health and well-being of the Eastern Catholic Churches.
While this diversity within the one Catholic Church can appear confusing at first, it in no way compromises the Church's unity. In a certain sense, it is a reflection of the mystery of the Trinity. Just as God is three Persons, yet one God, so the Church is 22 Churches, yet one Church.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church summarizes this nicely:
"From the beginning, this one Church has been marked by a great diversity which comes from both the variety of God's gifts and the diversity of those who receive them... Holding a rightful place in the communion of the Church there are also particular Churches that retain their own traditions. The great richness of such diversity is not opposed to the Church's unity" (CCC no. 814).
Although there are 22 Churches, there are only eight "Rites" that are used among them. A Rite is a "liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary patrimony," (Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches, canon 28). "Rite" best refers to the liturgical and disciplinary traditions used in celebrating the sacraments. Many Eastern Catholic Churches use the same Rite, although they are distinct autonomous Churches. For example, the Ukrainian Catholic Church and the Melkite Catholic Church are distinct Churches with their own hierarchies. Yet they both use the Byzantine Rite.
To learn more about the "two lungs" of the Catholic Church, visit this link:
Aramaic, the language of Jesus, Mary and the Apostles, is the official liturgical language of the Maronite Catholic Church.
Its Patriarch, Bechara Boutros Cardinal Rai is a voting member of the conclave.
Also present as a voting member of the conclave is
Mor Baselios Cardinal Cleemis of the Syro-Malankara Catholic Church, that also retains Aramaic for the Consecration. Both were elevated at the "surprise" November consistory. When Cardinal Cleemis received the Vatican notification of his elevation to cardinal, here is how he responded.
On receiving the letter I straight away went to St. Peters Basilica, to Peters tomb and I knelt down and prayed. And then I spent an hour at the tomb of Blessed John Paul II, who in fact appointed me as bishop in 2001, at the age of 42. Then after praying the rosary there I went to St. Mary Major, this is a place that gives me a lot of consolation, strength and confidence where I can pray unnoticed by anyone.
The presence of both these cardinals in the conclave is a critical component in reminding the Latin Rite cardinals that the Catholic Church breathes with 2 lungs. They will no doubt raise their voices with regard to the catastrophic decimation of christians in the Holy Lands and Middle East. The Catholic Church is universal.
Cardinal Burke is my favorite — I’d be delighted and relieved if he became Pope.
Your Maronite Liturgy sounds wonderful. I wish one of those Maronite Churches was close to me, but unfortunately there are only a few "English vernacular Mass" Churches near where I live now, and a couple of them might even be closed soon. On my own path into the Catholic faith, for a while I attended an Orthodox Church (not aligned with the Catholic Church). Their celebration of the "Divine Liturgy" proceeds with a lot of very beautiful and reverent music and chanting, and I think it was based on the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. The only place I saw the "Traditional Latin Mass" was on TV (EWTN) a while ago.
(By the way, I wish you could have my old house recognized as an historic landmark, and successfully write a couple grants for me for $500,000!) ☺
After Dr. Taylor Marshall wrote this original article, he got some feedback expressing a couple objections to his prediction, and he responded to those objections here: Dr. Taylor Marshall answers objections to his bold prediction.
He may or may not be right in his prediction, but it is at least interesting to read his take on it!
Thanks again, NYer, and thanks for all the posts-n-pings you do. They are sincerely appreciated.