Does it make a difference 'which' Jesus we believe in? [Vanity of comparing the 'christs']

Colofornian | March 15, 2013 | Colofornian

[Elsie]

Very detailed information.

But it is ALL biased and slanted and misinformation and distortion and just plain gobbldy gook!

--MormonDuge(We have the truth; why do you resist our teachings???)

[Elsie]

And I’m a Noachide.

Jesus (yeah; the REAL one) can help you get over this...

[Elsie]

The goal is to bring others lovingly to Christ. Does tearing down other people accomplish this?

You know, wiseone, this is a DAMNED good question!!!

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Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses

, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

 

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

 

 

 

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

[Elsie]

And a good ol’ Hoosier boy at that!

[MarkBsnr]

Does Buddy Jesus with a bong count?

I know a few 60's relics who seem inclined that way...

[MarkBsnr]

And a good ol’ Hoosier boy at that!

I shoulda looked you up when we spent those happy years in Steuben County.

[dfwgator]

My understanding is that Jim Jones’ only “religion” was Marxism, and he figured he could soft sell Marxism by dressing it up in religious robes.

[svcw]

I think I heard that line on Battlestar Galactica.
Or was that from the Borg?

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“I always felt the best advice is for us to mind the logs in our own eyes before wailing about the specks in others.

The goal is to bring others lovingly to Christ. Does tearing down other people accomplish this?”

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Who’s tearing down people? We’re tearing down false religions systems which tear people down to hell.

[Colofornian]

Jones was a student pastor for a Methodist church in 1952...before going off the deep end

[ravenwolf]

I did not know that about Jim Jones, i did know a man who had been a preacher and although i was too young to know at that time, he was said to be a good one, he told me later that he found himself unfit to preach the Gospel.

Unlike some of them, He did not want to take every one down with him.

[Owl558]

“If “Minding the logs in our eyes” = NEVER critiquing anybody, then why in God’s Name are you critiquing me?”

I didn’t critique, I made a comment about my approach to evangelizing and asked a question about your approach, which you never answered, by the way. I Also like how your non-answer precludes any responsibility for self-reflection on your part.

To answer your question, yes, I did consider the logs in my eyes before posting and pray daily for forgiveness. I also pray for the wisdom to know when I’m am doing the Lord’s will and when I am not. Upon seeing how you post the same things over and over, I felt compelled to respond.

I’m asking the question honestly, without anger. If you (including the cut-and-paste responders on the thread) react angrily to a simple question about spreading the Word, that is your issue - See my point about logs in your eyes.

How does tearing down a fellow Christians’belief in Jesus, bring them closer to the Lord?

I am really at a loss to see how your approach gives greater glory to God. However, I can see how your approach might give greater glory to yourselves (pride). That is why I ask. So please actually answer if you can without all the form letter cut and pastes of your compatriots.

[Owl558]

“Which Christ though? That’s kind of the point of the article, isn’t it?”

Very true and a good point. I am not defending the Islamic or Buddist “Jesus”. Please don’t think that. I am simply trying to understand the whole “my Jesus is better than your Jesus” game that Christians play with each other. If you want to put your faith in Jesus Ruiz, be my guest. But why don’t you come to Sunday worship with me and learn about a Jesus who can actually change your life?

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“I didn’t critique, I made a comment about my approach to evangelizing and asked a question about your approach, which you never answered, by the way.”

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He wouldn’t have had to have answered. You said he was tearing people down. Obviously, only false religions are getting torn down. Is that a problem?

2Co 11:12-13 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. (13) For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

2Pe 2:1-2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. (2) And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“I am simply trying to understand the whole “my Jesus is better than your Jesus” game that Christians play with each other.”

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But Jesus IS better than the false Jesus of Mormonism, or of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, or of the Baha’i, and so on and so forth.

“But why don’t you come to Sunday worship with me and learn about a Jesus who can actually change your life?”

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Only the real Jesus can change your life. If yours teaches something contrary to what Christ and the Apostles passed down to us, it is accursed.

Gal 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: (7) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. (8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

[Owl558]

“We’re tearing down false religions systems which tear people down to hell.”

And I’m sure you convert many, which is good.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“And I’m sure you convert many, which is good.”

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I convert none! It is the work of God!

Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The preaching of the Gospel by man is but the instrument God uses to gather His elect. If I was but the useful tool for God for the salvation of but one person, I would consider myself very blessed. Tearing down false religious systems, and sharing the Gospel, is a very worthwhile activity.

[Colofornian]

I didn’t critique, I made a comment about my approach to evangelizing and asked a question about your approach, which you never answered, by the way. I Also like how your non-answer precludes any responsibility for self-reflection on your part.

Listen, if I object to homosexual activist ideology, I'm not "tearing down homosexuals"...there's a difference between opposing the "ism" vs. the people themselves.

You accused me of "tearing down people"...that, in of itself, is a "critique." And now you're backing away from that critique? (Don't think so from your latest post)

And if it's not a critique, what is it? A compliment? A high five?

I’m asking the question honestly, without anger. If you (including the cut-and-paste responders on the thread) react angrily to a simple question about spreading the Word, that is your issue - See my point about logs in your eyes.

OK, disagreement, even when strongly stated, doesn't = anger. People on these threads are not worth expending "anger" over...so now you're superimposing an emotion inside me that was "news" to me...

1 Sam. 16:7 says that ONLY God sees the inside of a person -- man sees only the outside.

If you go back to post #14 to you, I placed a "chart" there...I wrote all that over a year ago...

If you look from the second column from the right, I wrote: This also becomes quite "rich" if the message is NOT to "judge" -- all as they engage in #3...judging others' inward motives, temperaments and dispositions!

I no sooner apply that to you in post #14 -- something I wrote over a year ago -- then what do you happen to do in post #32?...Why, you proceed to judge a complete stranger's inward temperants & dispositions. You don't know my emotions.

However, I can see how your approach might give greater glory to yourselves (pride).

And not only did I write over a year ago about this penchant for judging others' temperaments & dispositions, but I wrote: judging others' inward motives, temperaments and dispositions!

So you not only negatively judge my temperament & disposition (as with "anger"), but you openly negatively judge my motive ("pride").

Are you going to continue to claim that you are not a critique bend here?

How does tearing down a fellow Christians’belief in Jesus, bring them closer to the Lord?

Which "Christians" are you referencing? And be specific as to which verbiage used "tears down" those Christians?

Are you assuming every group written about in this thread is "Christian?" And upon what basis is that assumption made?

I am really at a loss to see how your approach gives greater glory to God

Could it be because you haven't fully studied Jesus' words...and have just engaged them buffet style?

Please review the words Jesus spoke that I cite in post #12... and then answer this question: Did Jesus give His Father glory with these words? Or did Jesus bring a lack of glory to His Father with these words?

[Truth2012]

Jesus tells us which Jesus to believe in... in the one who tells you things that come to pass- AND- he will point you to salvation.

Simple.

[Colofornian]

How does tearing me down — judging my inward motives, temperaments & dispositions — bring glory to your god?