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Pope Francis' first moves hint at break with past
BBC News ^ | 16 March 2013 | David Willey

Posted on 03/16/2013 2:08:29 PM PDT by cothrige

The first 48 hours of the pontificate of Pope Francis have given the world a foretaste of what it is going to be like to have a Jesuit priest for the first time in history as leader of the world's 1.2 billion Catholic believers.

Minutes after the election result was declared in the Sistine Chapel, a Vatican official called the Master of Ceremonies offered to the new Pope the traditional papal red cape trimmed with ermine that his predecessor Pope Benedict XVI gladly wore on ceremonial occasions.

"No thank you, Monsignore," Pope Francis is reported to have replied. "You put it on instead. Carnival time is over!"

It was just one small sign out of many this week that as Massimo Franco, one of Italy's shrewdest political editorial writers, commented in the Corriere Della Sera, "the era of the Pope-King and of the Vatican court is over".

You only had to look at the shocked faces of many of the courtiers when they suddenly realised the significance of what had happened and understood that it really was over.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: argentina; conclave; popefrancis; romancatholicism
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To: cothrige; Anoreth

Pope Francis has a big, happy, confident smile. He may be humble, but he’s not a doormat. Things (and people) are going to go his way or the highway, in my opinion.

41 posted on 03/16/2013 4:57:48 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Another Catholic Pope! It must be some kind of conspiracy!" ~Homer_J_Simpson)
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To: cothrige
The Carnival is Over
42 posted on 03/16/2013 5:08:27 PM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: Tax-chick

I like him alot.

43 posted on 03/16/2013 5:11:56 PM PDT by Anoreth (It's not a great party until someone loses rank.)
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To: All

Will pray for him. Not sure what makes him “tick” either. I think this Pope will change or do thing we have not thought of yet.

44 posted on 03/16/2013 5:15:00 PM PDT by nomorelurker
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To: Tax-chick
Things (and people) are going to go his way or the highway, in my opinion.
-lol- I love it...
45 posted on 03/16/2013 5:20:09 PM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: Tax-chick; cothrige; Anoreth
You're right.

The people applauding the end of the, "Pope-King" and, "Vatican Court" need to read some history.

They're applauding their own delusion that there will be a "common man" cluster frolic of the sort they want to see when the fact is what they're getting is the stripped down, no frills, intensely focused, victory oriented, court of a Warrior King.

My bet is they're going to like what's coming a lot less than they liked the "Vatican Court" they complained about mostly because they envied it's traditions and obvious connections to two thousand years of Christianity.

46 posted on 03/16/2013 5:40:58 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin; Tax-chick

I’m still busy laughing at all the people who are upset that he isn’t an Ayn Rand libertarian type.

In any case I admire a Pope who shuns security details and drives a cheap Volkswagon over a Merc.

47 posted on 03/16/2013 5:45:48 PM PDT by Anoreth (It's not a great party until someone loses rank.)
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To: Houghton M.

Well, until about 3 days ago, I considered myself a trad. But with what has been revealed about these people, I want nothing to do with them.

I would suspect that groups such as the FSSP and possibly even the SSPX (which sent a very nice official message to Francis) are going to be fine. There’s an FSSP mass in my part of Florida - but it’s about a two hour drive, so I probably won’t be going. And I sure don’t want to spend time with the loonies in the local EF mass, who are now congratulating themselves on being more Catholic than the Pope.

I now see that one of the reasons the EF hasn’t spread very effectively is the attitude of many of its supporters. But not until now did I realize that it was this bad.

48 posted on 03/16/2013 6:01:14 PM PDT by livius
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To: Anoreth

Me too...prayers going up.
Pax et bonum,

49 posted on 03/16/2013 6:01:35 PM PDT by Domestic Church (AMDG ...)
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To: livius
I now see that one of the reasons the EF hasn’t spread very effectively is the attitude of many of its supporters. But not until now did I realize that it was this bad.

I don't know about this overall. I have spent a great deal of time discussing issues with traditionalists, though I am not technically one myself as I don't speak any Latin and have never been to a traditional Mass. I have found them to be no different than anyone else when it comes to their decency or general courtesy. I read a great deal of what was posted this week on sites like Rorate-Caeli and fisheaters and have noticed some noise and discontent, but it was not nearly so bad as I have heard from the many other people regarding them. A few posters have been quite vocal, but these seem mostly to be sede-vacantists rather than run-of-the-mill trads. A number of people on these sites did voice their worries and concerns, but were mostly reasonable about it and generally avoided being nasty overall. And even these seemed mostly to come from a vocal minority rather than a general consensus. At least that was my experience.

But, one of the most interesting things I noticed at these sites and others is how many people are saying they will no longer support the EF because of these people's attitude. I found that very strange. I mean, after all, Mormons are amazingly nice people and yet it has never caused me or anyone I know to consider leaving the Catholic Church and becoming LDS. I have never been to a traditional Mass, but if I were able to go and found it spiritually uplifting and I thought it helped me grow closer to God I would continue to go. If I found it didn't then I would not. The attitudes of other practitioners doesn't seem to particularly enter into it for me.

50 posted on 03/16/2013 6:21:01 PM PDT by cothrige
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To: Anoreth; ClearCase_guy; cothrige; 1_Rain_Drop; livius; Moonman62; null and void
"I’m still busy laughing at all the people who are upset..."

And so am I. I'm still laughing about the new Pope's comment: "You put it on instead. Carnival time is over!" (Not bold text in the original)

I'm pretty sure that will prove to be exactly what he said, and exactly what he meant. This a man of Christ, a hard-core minister of biblical truth, and totally unimpressed with history of pomp and circumstance around the Vatican. My bet, he's going to be making many many changes, and driving media (and church) critics nuts!

The man has proven to be THE most interesting Pope in my lifetime.

51 posted on 03/16/2013 6:27:32 PM PDT by Ron C.
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To: Mrs. Don-o

If I’m not mistaken, there were a few who were younger than 75, so not near retirement age, but a public notice was made that the Pope had accepted their resignations for reasons of ‘ill health’. How were they to counter that? ;o)

52 posted on 03/16/2013 6:39:41 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Rashputin; Anoreth

Good observations. One of the points of poverty for St. Francis of Assisi was that a friar could be a fearless evangelist if he had nothing to lose but his life.

I’m looking forward to the installation on Tuesday!

53 posted on 03/17/2013 4:19:47 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("Another Catholic Pope! It must be some kind of conspiracy!" ~Homer_J_Simpson)
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To: livius; Houghton M.; cothrige

I haven’t noticed anything but optimism among my traditionalist friends about the selection; perhaps some wariness but certainly not the hostility that I’ve seen from commenters on Rorate or even, sadly, Ann Barnhardt’s blog.

Traditionalism, to my mind, is less a political statement of “I’m more Catholic than anyone else” than simply a way of living out the faith. We love the traditional liturgy, the season of Septuagesima, the Ember Days, the Asperges. I prefer to read the Confraternity version of the Douay Rhiems over any modern translation; I use prayers with “thee” and “thou”.

But we can be our own worst enemies sometimes!

54 posted on 03/17/2013 4:22:32 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Claud; cothrige

I love the old rite, too. You mentioned the old calendar, something that I think is vitally important. Changing it did great harm to people’s conception of the liturgical patterns and this expression of the Faith.

I agree that the nasty, foaming at the mouth, I’m-more- Catholic-than-the-Pope types are a minority. However, in some areas they seem to be quite dominant among the people who participate in the old rite masses and it’s one of the reasons that regular Novus Ordo attendees are sometimes timid about going to an EF mass and also why the EF mass attendance rarely grows very much. This varies from diocese to diocese, of course; in places where it has been accepted and encouraged and the FSSP is present, I think you’ll find much less of it.

Probably the reason it’s more pronounced in hostile dioceses is that the old rite people feel they have fought long and hard to get the mass and now they must defend it. But they end up creating a closed and exclusive community given to shrill criticisms and vicious internal fights between groups that have different conceptions of how the old rite should be celebrated. And this justifies every bad opinion the bishops had of them and certainly discourages the growth of the rite.

It probably does depend largely upon the diocese (mine isn’t particularly good, and there has been much infighting among the Latin Mass groups). It’s just unfortunate that some of the more hysterical of these people managed to get on the internet and spew their venom in front of an international audience, and I agree that it’s not going to be helpful to the cause at all.

55 posted on 03/17/2013 4:53:04 AM PDT by livius
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To: Moonman62

I hope I live long enough to see something similar happen in the Washington, DC area.

That would be great.

56 posted on 03/17/2013 7:45:50 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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I think he is simply trying to demonstrate the life of Christ with his words and deeds. By rejecting the red cap, he shows that tradition of men is not sacred. By his words about the size of the apartment, he shows that simplicity of living is a key to rejecting materialism and worldly devotion. By his refusal to stand in an exalted place, he shows that those would desire to be the greatest in the Kingdom must be the least in the Kingdom.

I am not a Roman Catholic believer, but I do think that Pope Francis understands the Way of Jesus.

57 posted on 03/18/2013 7:19:42 AM PDT by Arkansas Toothpick
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To: livius; cothrige
cothrige wrote a very good explanation for the reactions of some traditional Catholics. Please don't paint all of us with a broad brush.
58 posted on 03/18/2013 2:55:03 PM PDT by ELS
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To: cothrige
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59 posted on 03/21/2013 7:33:25 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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