Posted on 03/30/2013 2:42:00 PM PDT by NYer
Not sure about Navy SEALS, I am thinking more like Royal Marines or U.S. Marines. I think they appear so young because of their fair complexion. My understanding is hat they re all part of the Swiss Army and are hand picked for the duty.
I’m obviously an outsider but that would unnerve me, seeing as how your Pope Francis appears to have become something of a polarizing figure fairly quickly. I don’t grasp all the uproar, the foot washing is a very appropriate, humbling gesture for a Christian in position of authority to me, so I approve of it. Then, there’s the whole Ann Barnhardt thing, I saw that thread, Catholics calling him satan for not genuflecting.
How much of this is real and how much is media hype about him being polarizing?
I have not seen the thread about Ann Barnhardt or the not genuflecting so I real can't comment.
HISTORY OF THE ANCIENT UNITAS FRATRUM (1457-1722) The Bohemian Brethren are a link in a chain of sects beginning with Wyclif (1324-84) and coming down to the present day. The ideas of the Englishman found favour with Hus, and Bohemia proved a better soil for their growth than England. Both Wyclif and Hus were moved by a sincere desire to reform the Church of their times; both failed and, without intending it, became the fathers of new heretical bodies - the Lollards and the Hussites. The former were persecuted out of existence in England by Catholic rulers; the latter prospered in Bohemia, thanks to royal and national support. The burning of John Hus at the stake for his stubborn adherence to the condemed doctrines of Wyclif (at Constance, 6 July, 1415) was considered an insult to the faith of the Bohemian nation, which, since its first conversion to Christianity, had never swerved from the truth. The University of Prague came boldly forward to vindicate the man and his doctrines; the party which hitherto had worked at reforming the Church from within now rejected the Church's authority and became the Hussite sect...
A reasonable reply. Thank you.
I did find one thread about Traditionalists and the new Pope. It seems that some is just hype from the media trying to stir trouble, and there are some Radical Traditionalists that are not happy with him. I think this number is very small and I am certain that a certain percentage would be unhappy even if he brought back full scale inquisitions and had the entire Mass said in Latin.
You wrote:
“I’m curious, what is the source contradicting Moravians’ own claim of having origins in the Orthodox?”
First, produce an actual claim from the Moravians that they were never Catholic but were instead Eastern Orthodox. Until you do that I have no reason to believe you can validly claim that they claim that.
“The Catholic Encyclopedia doesn’t contradict them as you have:”
I think you need to read the sources you quote more closely:
“HISTORY OF THE ANCIENT UNITAS FRATRUM (1457-1722)...”
Thus, we see already that the old Catholic Encyclopedia is clearly referencing a group that could only be Catholic if it started in Bohemia in 1457.
“The Bohemian Brethren are a link in a chain of sects beginning with Wyclif (1324-84) and coming down to the present day.”
Wyclif - a Catholic who embraced heresy. Not Eastern Orthodoxy.
“The ideas of the Englishman found favour with Hus, and Bohemia proved a better soil for their growth than England.”
Hus - a Catholic who embraced heresy. Not Eastern Orthodoxy.
Produce a source from the Moravians themselves, preferably from an official Moravian source.
There was a pretty wild one here on FR, there actually were calls for a return to the Inquisition. Maybe it was deleted.
The movement that was to become the Moravian Church was started by Jan Hus (English: John Huss) in the late 14th century. Hus objected to some of the practices of the Roman Catholic Church and wanted to return the church in Bohemia and Moravia to what were the practices in these territories when it had been Eastern Orthodox: liturgy in the language of the people (i.e. Czech), having lay people receive communion in both kinds (bread and wine - that is, in Latin, communio sub utraque specie), married priests, and eliminating indulgences and the idea of Purgatory. Evidence of their roots in Eastern Orthodoxy can be seen today in their form of the Nicene Creed, which like Orthodox Churches, does not include the filioque clause. In rejecting indulgences, Jan Hus can be said to have adopted a doctrine of justification by grace through faith alone; in doing so, the Moravians arguably became the first Protestant church.[2][3]
Pope Francis is a Jesuit. For better or worse, Jesuits operate in a different mode from what is common. I pray that God will grant him the grace to accomplish whatever good he is meant to accomplish. It is too early to get an idea of what is actually going to go on in terms of curial reform.
Ed Peter’s post on fathers made a great deal of sense. http://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2013/03/28/popes-like-dads-dont-have-a-choice-in-the-matter/
In the end, God is in control.
I’m likin’ this guy more every day! :o)
Love the tagline!
Why? They make excellent theatre. They draw attention away from the other Swiss Guards ... the ones in black business suits, with wires in their ears and MP-5s tucked away unseen but convenient.
amen, may the 1000 year schism be ended.
well, the uniform is for decorative/historical purposes — just like the beefeaters at the tower or the bearskin caps at Buck house. The Swiss guard who protect the pope directly wear clothes like the secret service
well, their ancestors were Catholic...
Don’t encourage her! She needs the rank (and the salary) to support her car and her dog!
Thanks for the link Peter’s site. He offers a good defense. FWIU, the foot washing rite is optional. More than 25 years ago, the priest at my parish included women when washing feet. It’s much ado about nothing.
Their ancestors were Eastern Orthodox.
you wrote:
“I’ll refer you back to the initial link I provided, amply sourced, with the key excerpt being as follows:”
It is not “amply” sourced. It is, in fact, not sourced at all. The two footnotes are about Hus not any Eastern Orthodox connection. That’s exactly why the superscript numbers only come at the end of the sentence and NOT after the comment about supposed Eastern Orthodox origins. Also, please not that both titles referenced in footnotes 2 and 3 lack page numbers which shows us that no specific point is being made except a general reference to the Protestant nature of the sect in question - as is amply demonstrated in the titles and description of the two books referenced.
In other words, you got nothing!
Now, again, I ask you to provide me with a source, preferably an official source from the Moravians, which gives evidence, actual evidence rather than a claim of evidence, that the Moravian Church, a 15th century heretical sect which broke away from the Catholic Church was actually Eastern Orthodox in origins. Can you do it or not?
“Their ancestors were Eastern Orthodox.”
No, they were not. Even in the days of Sts. Cyril and Methodius they were Catholic because Cyril and Methodius were Catholic. They received approval from the pope to have the liturgy in the native language, for instance. Cyril died in Rome as a monk.
I’ve got family obligations Vlad no time to spar at present. The Inquisition will have to wait, lol.
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