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Anger, Hatred and Irrational Rage
Standing on my head ^ | April 9, 2013 | Fr. Dwight Longenecker

Posted on 04/09/2013 3:16:52 PM PDT by NYer

The death of Margaret Thatcher and the suicide of Matthew Warren–the son of Pastor Rick Warren has brought to light the irrational rage that has been simmering in our society for some time.

I experienced this when a colleague said in 2008 that any Catholic who knowingly voted for Obama should go to confession. His statement made the national news and his email box was suddenly flooded with hate mail. When he disabled his email they started sending their hate mail to anyone associated with the parish who still had an email box open. Some of it came to me. This was not simply polite disagreement. It wasn’t just anger. This was vile, blasphemous, explicitly sexual and scatological language directed not just toward me, but toward the Catholic faith, the Blessed Mother, the Pope and Our Lord Jesus Christ.

I have seen the same vile material in comboxes all over the internet. Neither is this simply a few nut cases who troll around spreading their filth. This is a global phenomenon, and it is truly frightening. To understand it we should be clear. This is not simply anger. Although anger is an emotion, it still has a rational dimension. I’m angry because someone harmed me. I’m angry because of a perceived injustice. I’m angry because of some fault or failure. Even when the anger is deeply rooted, there is still a rational object or focus for the anger.

What we are seeing as the result of Matthew Warren’s suicide and Mrs Thatcher’s death is not simply anger. It is being called “hate”. Hatred is anger that is nurtured into an active wish for someone else’s harm. I might get angry at my boss for being a jerk, but when I nurture that anger and direct it towards him as a person (rather than just anger with his actions) and when I start to plan revenge or imagine harm to him or his loved ones, then the anger has turned to hatred. The hatred–while vile–still has an element of rationality to it. It can be discussed and analyzed and understood–even if it cannot be defused.

The phenomenon we are seeing is something worse than anger and hatred. It is rage. Rage is irrational. You cannot argue with rage. Rage is cruel and violent for its own sake. Rage is anarchical and demonic in its absurdity and irrationality. When I say it is demonic, I am not exaggerating or being symbolical. The spirit of hatred has overtaken people, and I fear what we are seeing is only the beginning. Are the people so filled with rage demon possessed? I am not an authority on the subject, but I venture the diagnosis that if they are not literally demon possessed, then their personalities have been oppressed by evil to such an extent that they are out of their minds.

What to do? This sort only comes out by prayer and fasting.

 


TOPICS: Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: margaretthatcher; thatcher; unitedkingdom; warren

1 posted on 04/09/2013 3:16:52 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...
In his book on St. Francis, G. K. Chesterton puts forth the argument that the Dark Ages, after the fall of Rome, were a time of prayer and fasting. He claims the West needed to adopt a monastic lifestyle to drive out the demons of the fallen pagan culture; nature worship of pagan Rome lead to many things unnatural.

Catholic ping!

2 posted on 04/09/2013 3:17:31 PM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: NYer

These Leftists are increasingly raging animals, emptied of all civility and conscience.

We were told that these would arise and shock the moral sensibilities of God-fearing people. Just didn’t know it would happen to our generation.


3 posted on 04/09/2013 3:23:19 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: NYer
The phenomenon we are seeing is something worse than anger and hatred. It is rage. Rage is irrational. You cannot argue with rage. Rage is cruel and violent for its own sake. Rage is anarchical and demonic in its absurdity and irrationality. When I say it is demonic, I am not exaggerating or being symbolical. The spirit of hatred has overtaken people, and I fear what we are seeing is only the beginning.

I fully concur.

Rage is caustic. It damages not only its intended victims, but those who concoct and sling it in all directions. The base level of rage is one more reason I believe it's time and past time to split our failed constitutional republic into two nations: a restored constitutional public, and a leftist extremist workers' and peasants' paradise on earth, or whatever the self-styled "progressives" and "liberals" would like to call it.

Not all divorces are evidence of failure: sometimes, they're the first long, painful step out of the morass.

4 posted on 04/09/2013 3:26:02 PM PDT by Standing Wolf
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To: Standing Wolf

Better to actively suppress the people you are describing than to divide our Union. We fought one great war to prevent the dissolution of the Union. We can fight another.


5 posted on 04/09/2013 3:36:53 PM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: NYer; Chode

I heard Rush talk of the bad stuff said against Margaret and I was shocked because I liked her.

As for Rick Warren I had no idea who he was to begin with so when his son died I saw it in the headlines but what could I say? Did not know him either.

My favorite Catholic Brother did weigh in on Warren’s death but it is not with rage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BeruDfEGao


6 posted on 04/09/2013 3:39:26 PM PDT by Morgana (Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: NYer

At least that Darkseeker had a legitimate reason to be enraged.

I’ve been pondering the left since they went into Darkseeker mode. Is it curable? What IS the cure?


7 posted on 04/09/2013 3:41:08 PM PDT by txhurl
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To: NYer

Lefties are are acting mindlessly, irrationally?

Who’da thought?


8 posted on 04/09/2013 3:44:35 PM PDT by GilesB
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To: NYer

When one asks, “What has Person X done that has harmed you?” the raving trolls have no response. They are distressed simply by the existence of decency.


9 posted on 04/09/2013 4:03:45 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Do you know why I love reptiles? It's because they don't play guitars.)
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To: fwdude
We were told that these would arise and shock the moral sensibilities of God-fearing people. Just didn’t know it would happen to our generation.

All of this just continues to fulfill the End Times prophecy found in Scripture. Every day we are seeing mounting, mountainous and momentous—impossible to deny or ignore—examples of the absolute and inerrant Truth of God's Holy Word found in the Bible.

Remember, though it is hard from a purely human perspective, that these things are made known to us not so that we should worry or be vexed, but instead so that we will rejoice and be glad that His Truth lives, and that His Joy is alive in us, so that our joy might be complete.

Be remaining mindful in Christ that this is what He intended our response to be, we can with His strength repel the urge to despair, and instead find the one true peace which lasts in each breaking news item. Nothing will more enrage the enemy, and when he gets enraged, he does stupid things. He overreaches and makes many more enemies to his cause.

We cannot know the Mind of God, but we can know His wishes for us, and that they are the only good things.

Amen

;-\

10 posted on 04/09/2013 4:07:57 PM PDT by Gargantua ("Barbie O'Bunga ~ America's First Fly-Strewn, Maggot-Gagging Fag President")
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To: NYer
As our culture moves away from Biblical principles we will devolve as a society and the vacuum and void of these guiding principles will be replaced by something...

...evil and dark...

11 posted on 04/09/2013 4:16:03 PM PDT by Popman (Godlessness is always the first step to the concentration camp.)
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To: NYer; All
"In his book on St. Francis, G. K. Chesterton puts forth the argument that the Dark Ages, after the fall of Rome, were a time of prayer and fasting. He claims the West needed to adopt a monastic lifestyle to drive out the demons of the fallen pagan culture; nature worship of pagan Rome lead to many things unnatural."

This is needed today. Good old fashion fasting and prayer with witnessing. The neo pagan is here. He and she are back. Just look at occultic shop" readings " . I seen two more on a major roadway down here. When we once had the Gospel then this again it is worse then when Romans ruled. Why ? Because then they never heard of Christ until he came the first time. But now we already heard of Christ then as a nation we went to the eastern "gods" also now old paganism rewapped packaging. I have met people when I talk openly they can get very mad. I find out later they are heavily into the occult. Who hates Christ the most. The enemy of our souls. He blinds these people. He is angry thus they are angry to justify their own hate.

We as a nation that had a standard with God will pay heavily. Do you remember when we took God out of the schools with prayer? That year we had the Cuban missile crisis. We almost blew up the world. Kennedy let it out to the public. When that happen we all prayed by the millions upon millions. I remember my mother with a publication for pray came every month. It had I think ten million subscribers. Besides our separate brethren praying but even that did not take away the assassination of John Kennedy the next year then Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther. The sixties. If we remember good is supposed to come out of death like the martyrs but did we heed the lesson like we should of done? Maybe for a time but no. We systematically let God be taken out of public life slowly. Now we got this nation of now.

We need to say real heartfelt prayers not cheap hollow prayers. He is coming soon. He told us will I find faith? He knew the good news would be preached then to the end. So if it is preached does not mean accepted by all but just heard by all. We live in a info and fast traveling world as the prophet Daniel told us the end of time would be this period of history. It is as obvious as the nose on our faces we are here. Let's say our true heart felt contrition prayers with witnessing. Praise Jesus! So be it/Amen!!

12 posted on 04/09/2013 4:25:23 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: Popman

I was writing while you posted. Your were concise I was bit longer. Lol! Same idea.


13 posted on 04/09/2013 4:26:58 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace
Have you read the "The Harbinger" By Rabbi Cain...

A Messianic Jew....

If you have not, he pretty much says we are already under Judgement...

A very interesting read...

14 posted on 04/09/2013 4:46:12 PM PDT by Popman (Godlessness is always the first step to the concentration camp.)
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To: NYer

I have always wonder, why do you need fasting with the prayer?

Plus also I was told, and I could be wrong on this, so please do update me, that the Easter season, there is to be no fasting, because of the joy of the resurection of Christ. During Lent you fast.


15 posted on 04/09/2013 4:49:12 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: johngrace

Please see post number 15. Thank-you.


16 posted on 04/09/2013 4:51:01 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: NYer
I am not an authority on the subject, but I venture the diagnosis that if they are not literally demon possessed, then their personalities have been oppressed by evil to such an extent that they are out of their minds.

They are being given over to their sins . It's a judgement on them .

What to do? This sort only comes out by prayer and fasting.

Nothing happens without first repenting and repenting does not mean feeling sorry for anything.

17 posted on 04/09/2013 5:25:57 PM PDT by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
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To: Biggirl

The fasting and prayer reference is to this and has nothing to do with easter.

Mat 17:18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
Mat 17:19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
Mat 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Mat 17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.


18 posted on 04/09/2013 5:31:53 PM PDT by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
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To: NYer
Deadly sins all.

Anger, Hatred and Irrational Rage
The Deadliest of the Deadlies, Today
The Meanest of the Seven Deadly Sins?
Envy A Capital Sin [Ecumenical]
Understanding God's Anger: Compline, Anger, and God
Anger and the Anger of God (Quotes from Scripture)

Lists Every Catholic Should be Familiar With: The 7 Capital Sins and their Contrary Virtues
Prayer to be Freed of the Seven Deadly Sins
The Seven Deadly Sins Revisited: Greed
"Care for an Entrée With Your Entrée?" Gluttony, the Forgotten Sin
Seven Deadly Sins: Sloth or 'Acedia'
Seven deadly sins alive and well today, says Jesuit journal
The Virtue-Driven Life
The Virtues (counteracting the REAL Seven Deadly Sins)
What are Capital Sins? [Seven Deadly Sins]
Satan's Arsenal: "The Seven Deadly Sins"
The Anatomy of Envy

19 posted on 04/09/2013 5:39:06 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Morgana
Morgana, I think this video is objectionable in part, and I want to explain why. If I am wrong about this, I would be grateful if you would correct me quickly.

This video attempts to make a causal connection between Rick Warren's alleged, radical belief in the eternal security of salvation by faith alone, and his son Michael's suicide. But the video did not attempt to document that Rick Warren actually holds or teaches this belief (maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but it wasn't evidenced n this video).

Second, the video claims that Michael was operating with sufficient knowledge and freedom and in response to this "eternal security" doctrine, when, in the light of his lifeling psychiatric illness, it is probable that he did not choose freely or reason his way into this suicide.

It is rash judgment to link Rick Warren to his son's suicide when this is unknown and uinknowable. And one sentence from Michael, from 10 years ago, does not constitute proof.

Finally, the Most Holy Family Monastery, which (as far as I know) has been sedevacantist for decades, and therefore is not only non-Vatican but anti-Vatican, is now DBA "VaticanCatholic.com"? An attempt to identify with an ecclesial structure they actually consider a fraud?

Explain to me how this is not fraudulent in itself.

If I am barking up the wrong tree here, please let me know.

20 posted on 04/09/2013 6:03:21 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (May the Lord bless you and keep you, may He turn to you His countenance, and give you peace.)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks NYer.

UK Leftists Celebrate Thatcher’s Death (Did You Expect Different?)
Rush Limbaugh.com | April 9, 2013 | Rush Limbaugh
Posted on 04/09/2013 3:45:23 PM PDT by Kaslin
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3005993/posts


21 posted on 04/09/2013 6:39:26 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: Popman

Yes- I have the Book. Thanks.


22 posted on 04/09/2013 7:13:14 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: Lera
"Nothing happens without first repenting and repenting does not mean feeling sorry for anything."

HUH? What?

23 posted on 04/09/2013 7:15:22 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: Biggirl
 photo hands_praying-1.jpg

Your talking Catholic formal fasting for Lent not individual for family or friends salvation. We are allowed under the Holy Spirit to pray better with fasting.

I know I do. Partial or most day. It is wonderful. I had a misunderstanding for years on fasting. My own way is two tablespoons of A-pple C-ider V-inegar in a regular glass of filtered or tap water in replace of a meal. Let's say you have a 3 meal day just skip one with ACV water then condition your self slowly over time towards for a half day or full day fast. You do not force yourself to a full day fast. Cheers.

24 posted on 04/09/2013 7:32:49 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
Better to actively suppress the people you are describing than to divide our Union. We fought one great war to prevent the dissolution of the Union. We can fight another.

I see your point, AEMILIUS PAULUS, but have two qualms:

1.) I'm far from sure we rational, level-headed, patriotic people can battle the anti-rational, anti-American, rage-filled leftist extremists. They've eviscerated our constitutional republic in all but name and cobbled together a more or less "progressive," more or less neo-fascist or crony capitalist oligarchy. I don't know who outnumbers whom, but the national and more than one or two state governments belong to them, not us.

2.) The Civil War was the point at which American government began to veer out of control in a serious way. We as a people lost our civic virtue and began to yield to civic cynicism. We regained our national union, but lost our national soul. Central government and wild-eyed abolitionism and northern disdain for the south triumphed over responsible elective government. Factions trampled unity. I've always believed the Civil War could—and should—have been avoided.

All that said, I've to concede I don't have the comprehensive answer. I think I've got bits and pieces of it, but must confess I still don't understand how people could hate America the way the leftist extremists do.

25 posted on 04/09/2013 8:29:36 PM PDT by Standing Wolf
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To: johngrace
It means to have a change of mind.

If you are trusting in anything but Jesus to save you then you need to repent (change your mind)
These days it seems that most Americans are trusting in everything but that including the people who claim to be Christians (followers of Christ).


The law was given to show us that we needed to be redeemed.

Jesus didn't come to have a tea party , he came to redeem us. He died on that cross to pay for our sins .You either trust him that paid that price for you or you in your pride say that I can earn my own way by doing this that and the other .

It all boils down to this you are either trusting that his blood cleanses you from your unrighteousness or you are trusting in man be it yourself or your priest or your church or some work etc etc to save you .

It's pride that says I can do it myself by doing this that or the other . It requires you to change your mind (repent) and humble yourself to accept that he gave us when he died on that cross to pay for our sins.

So it's either === I can be good enough (which think about it that would make you a hypocrite since you know deep down in your that you have sinned and that already condemns you) or it's = changing your mind and accepting the FREE gift .

Something happens when you come to that point . When you change your mind it really does change your heart and that opens the door to a changed life , some things change instantly others things things get changed as you read and hear the word and change your mind (repent)

Or you can stay in bondage and keep trusting yourself or anything else to save you and you can keep saying you are sorry all the while doing the same thing over and over and punishing yourself or whatever while still seeing no changes and things keep getting worse and worse and you keep saying you are sorry and nothing changes as the world keeps sucking you up into it and things keep getting worse and worse and you try to comfort yourself by saying things like well at least I am not like such and such man who is having sex with another man or like so and so who killed her baby by having an abortion etc etc but just because you think their sin is worse it does not make your sin any better . Still makes you a prideful sinner that rejects the one who died for you on that cross . No different than what the Pharisees of Jesus day said and thought



26 posted on 04/09/2013 9:42:40 PM PDT by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
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To: Lera
pearly gates photo: Pearly Gates pearly_20gates.jpg

Hi Lera- Your presuppositions are totally taken from others on what not to believe when you never understood in the first place what a Catholic is as a Christian.

"It all boils down to this you are either trusting that his blood cleanses you from your unrighteousness or you are trusting in man be it yourself or your priest or your church or some work etc etc to save you."

Really? I do not know where to begin with you. But I know you heard all the differences before from what you think is an absolute in all spiritual cases. Definitely with that answer. Just amazing. Do not think just because you may have the Holy Spirit you know all the answers. When I thought that many years ago the Good Lord showed me otherwise. I know Christ. You may know Christ but not in all things yet until we go past the pearly gates. Nobody but nobody is truly saved till your ten feet past the gates of heaven where no more temptation from the enemy exists. God may give us to see that it will happen. But it happens completely when we leave earth or Christ comes back in the second coming to give a new world to us.

pearly gates photo: pearly gates pearlygates.gif

Eternal Father, we offer Thee the merits of the Most Precious Blood of Jesus, Thy Beloved Son and my Divine Redeemer, for all my relations, friends and enemies, for the poor, the sick, and those in tribulation, and for all those for whom Thou willest I should pray, or knowest that I ought to pray.

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

Blessed and praised forevermore be Jesus Who hath saved us by His Precious Blood!

27 posted on 04/09/2013 10:47:08 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.


28 posted on 04/09/2013 10:56:12 PM PDT by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
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To: Lera

So you lawyered up some words from scripture. How new to these posts. lol


29 posted on 04/09/2013 11:08:23 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: Lera

Grace, Faith, and Works

Crucifixion, by Cavallini

Real Audio Lessons on this Topic
Justification by Faith Alone? I
Justification by Faith Alone? II
Justification by Faith Alone? III
Justification by Faith Alone? IV
What it means to be born again
Are you saved?

The Catholic position on salvation can be summed up thus: We are saved by Christ’s grace alone, through faith and works done in charity inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Sola gratia! Grace alone — but a grace we have to co-operate with. Thinking that all one has to do is pray the “Sinner’s Prayer” once to be saved is wrong. Thinking that all one has to do is be a “good person” to be saved is wrong.

“We are saved by ‘Faith alone’”: No!

It takes more than simply knowing Jesus is the Messiah to be saved; even the Evil One knows Who Christ is.

James 2:14-26
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The Bible and the Catholic Church don’t separate the “works of faith,” preceded and caused by grace, from salvation (see relevant Scripture below) You can have all the faith in the world, enough to move mountains, but if you don’t have charity, you are nothing:

I Corinthians 13:2 2
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

“We can work our way into Heaven”: No!

Catholic teaching for 2,000 years:
we are saved by grace alone, through faith that works in love

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

The Catholic Church and Her Bible condemn the idea that one can work his way to Heaven on his own merit or that God “owes” a person for doing the right things.

All our works get their merit only from Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf. We can do “works” 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year for the rest of our lives, but without Christ’s grace, they are nothing. Works have no merit in themselves — and faith without works is not enough. We are saved by grace alone — a grace that we accept neither “by faith alone” nor “by works alone,” but “by faith that works in charity” (Galatians 5:6).

Something I came across on the Internet demonstrates the obvious importance of works. Below is a (albeit rather smart-alecky) joke letter to a pastor who preaches “faith alone”:

I am a former Catholic who was recently saved through the Grace of Jesus Christ. All my life I knew I was a homosexual. The Catholic Church told me that I had to refrain from what I was in order to be saved! I never knew that my good works meant nothing! To think, I would have spent my entire life struggling not to engage in homosexual activity, just to wind up in Hell! I now realize that Salvation is through the finished work of Christ ALONE, and not from good works. I am now living as an active homosexual in the freedom of Jesus Christ!

The pastor, almost completely misunderstanding Catholicism but who has an entire ministry devoted to “saving Catholics”, responded in part by saying:

It is true that a person is not saved by his works and that salvation is completely of grace. However that does not mean that works have nothing to do with salvation.

Well, “pastor,” that’s what Catholics have been saying all along!

The bottom line: all salvation comes from the grace of Christ’s Sacrifice and only from the grace of His Sacrifice. Salvation is a free gift — a gift that is not “owed” to us, that God didn’t have to offer us, and that we could never “earn” on our own — that we accept by faith and works. Christ doesn’t have to give us this gift of salvation; we don’t “deserve” this gift, we can’t “earn” it; but He, in His endless Love for us, offers it nonetheless. We have to believe this gift exists (have faith) and then open our hands to receive it (obey, inspired by the grace given to us).

An analogy: there is a train called “Grace” that is the one and only route to Heaven and which is fueled by Christ’s Passion, Resurrection, and Ascension alone. Some Protestants seem to believe that all one has to do is believe the train exists and all will be well. They accuse Catholics of thinking that belief in the train is unecessary, that we can give out free soup in the train station and, thereby, bypass the train altogether. But what Catholics actually believe is that the train — Grace — is the only way to Heaven, that it is the only means by which we are saved, that we can’t take another route and can do nothing about getting to Heaven without that train. But we also teach that we have to believe in the train’s existence and board it through repentance and obedience to what Christ teaches. God is the Conductor of the train, completely Sovereign, and can go off the tracks if need be to pick up those who are truly and invincibly ignorant of the train’s existence but who are of good will, obey the natural law, and whom He deigns to save. If, when, and how He might do such a thing is completely up to Him and not for us to bicker about. It is to us to do what He has taught us: to believe, repent, love God and neighbor, and preach the Gospel.

Born Again?

Many non-Catholics, in their confused zeal for Jesus, are constantly asking Catholics if we are “born again,” admonishing us that unless we are “born again” we cannot be saved. But you see, Catholics, like St. John the Evangelist in the third chapter of his Gospel, relate the phrase “born again” to the results of Baptism. Baptism is how we enter into the New Covenant, in the same way the Hebrews and Israelites entered the Old Covenant through circumcision (which, you’ll note, was done to infants).

When many Protestants use the phrase “born again,” they seem to be referring to an “emotional experience.” They often expect instant transformation (which can certainly happen), speaking in tongues, miracles, etc. as some sort of “proof” of having been “born again.”

Traditional Catholics most certainly agree that repentance (what we call “metanoia”) is necessary and that inner transformation (what we call “theosis” or “sanctification”) is the goal, but we are very conscious of not confusing “feelings” with “faith.” These are two different things, and mere “feelings” can lie: ask anyone who’s ever been “love-bombed” in a cult, experienced cocaine or Ecstasy, been to a Woodstock-like music festival, or is just having a really excellent day. Oceanic “feelings of oneness” and “happiness” can be had in pagan religions (read about Greek and Roman “bachanalias” sometime), through natural or artificial chemicals, through the feeling of “falling in love,” through hypnosis, through highly sensual experiences, and other things that have nothing to do, inherently, with Christ. The ancient Greeks babbled in tongues, and glossolalia can is still practiced today among Voudun (”Voodoo”) cults, during Japanese seances, and by other false religions and in other cultures all over the world. These sorts of experiences must be discerned, and the spirits must be tested! Remember what Christ said would happen even back in the first century:

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

It is important to test the spirits and not devalue reason and doctrine! Know that the fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance according to Galatians 5:22-23. The fruits of the Spirit are not out of control shaking, screaming, running around, falling down, “holy laughter,” vocalizations that don’t edify the Church, a “feeling” that doctrine and religion are now unimportant, etc. One should be more in control of one’s self after an encounter with the Holy Spirit, not less.

St. Teresa being filled with the Holy Spirit (by Gian Lorenzo Bernini, 17th c.). Catholics would call this experience “being in ecstasy” or “having a mystical encounter.”

As to “personal relationship with Jesus, “ think of the great Saints — everyone from Thérèse de Lisieux to St. Francis — are these people not “born again” in the Protestant sense of “having a deep relationship with Christ” while still remaining 100% believers in traditional Catholic doctrine? Read about the life of St. Patrick and then talk to me about a “personal relationship” with Jesus that some Protestants think Catholics just don’t understand.

What of our holy martyrs like Maximilian Kolbe or Nikolaus Gross, murdered by Nazis because of the virtue compelled by their Catholic faith? What about Joan of Arc, martyred for her refusal to deny the divine origins of the voices that led her to defeat the English? If you want “personal relationship with Jesus,” read the writings of St. Teresa of Avila or St. John of the Cross!

Have you been saved?

Another question Catholics often hear is, “Have you been saved?” Catholics, though, don’t see eternal salvation as a one-time event that one can pinpoint and relate to others by saying, for example, “I was saved at 5:30 pm on 23 October 1988 when I got on my knees and accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.” We think of salvation, ultimately, as a process that is begun with faith and Baptism (or just Baptism in the case of infants) and is then “worked out” (Phillipians 2:12) as we endeavor to “put on Christ.” Additionally, we don’t see salvation as something that can’t be lost (2 Peter 2:20-21). Even St. Paul himself, the one who did more than anyone else to spread the Gospel, wasn’t sure of his own salvation. He wrote in 1 Corinthians 9:27

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Who are we to be more “sure of our salvation” than the Apostle Paul?

Most Catholics, of course, are able to speak of specific events such as the first time they truly “got it” that Jesus is Lord or that the Church and its Scriptures are true; many are able to tell specific stories of experiences of the Holy Spirit. Many have wonderful stories of healings, consolation, and miracles. But to speak of “having been saved,” in the past tense, is something we tend not to do unless we are speaking about our Baptism, at which time we were first justified. We speak, instead, of “being saved,” in the present tense, as we obey Him after Baptism and endeavor to keep accepting the gift of salvation which we could never earn on our own.

Many Protestants tend to see salvation in legal terms: “I believe, therefore, I am saved because that is God’s promise to me. As long as I believe, I can’t lose my salvation because the terms of the contract are that I simply believe and I will be saved.” Catholics see salvation more in terms of kinship, our adoption into God’s very family, our becoming, literally, true children of God and inheriting Christ’s sonship through Jesus’ sacrifice. We see “working out our salvation” as those things we, inspired by the Holy Spirit, are called to do as children of God, in the same way that a child honors an earthly parent — and we see God’s gift of eternal salvation to us as an inheritance from our Father rather than a “pay-off” for having fulfilled a “contract” by a simple assertion of faith. And as a father can “disinherit” a child if that child no longer treats him as father and freely walks away from his inheritance, so our Father in Heaven can “disinherit” those who don’t treat Him as Father (Romans 11:22; Galatians 5:4; Hebrews 6:4-6; 2 Peter 3:17-18). For more in-depth information, read the transcript of this debate on “justification” between Scott Hahn, Catholic and former Presbyterian minister, and Dr. Robert Knudson of Westminster Seminary.

To sum up

So, here’s how a Catholic would answer the standard questions from Protestants:

Q. Have you been “born again”?
A. Yes, when we are baptized, we are “born again of water and Spirit” (John 3).
Q. Do you have a personal relationship with Jesus?
A.

Some Catholics are good Catholics and have a deep personal relationship with Jesus by trusting in Him and receiving His Sacraments. Other Catholics are mere “cultural Catholics” who call themselves “Catholic” because they were baptized once, but don’t believe what Christ’s Church teaches or don’t have the will to practice what His Church commands. Such Catholics are “dead members” of the Church and must be restored by faith and the Sacraments.

Instead of the “Sinner’s Prayer,” each year at the Easter Vigil, Catholics renew their Baptismal promises by rejecting Satan and all of his works, and by affirming their faith in God the Father, in Jesus Christ His only Son our Lord, and in the Holy Ghost. Yes, a Catholic could go through the Vigil by rote and not mean it, just as a person can say the “Sinner’s Prayer” and not mean it. Christ is the Judge of men’s souls, however, and He knows who truly has faith.
Q. Have you been “saved”?
A.

Those Catholics who have faith and obey the will of the Father are being saved, by the grace of Christ alone. Catholics who don’t have faith and don’t obey the will of the Father will not be saved unless they repent and begin to have faith and keep the commandments.
Q.

If you were to die tonight, do you know for an absolute certainty that you would go to Heaven?
A.

No more than St. Paul did when he wrote to the people of Corinth. But we do have the assuredness of knowing that God keeps His promises, that He is good and merciful and just, and that He so loved the world that He sent His only-begotten Son so we might not perish but have everlasting life if we believe, repent, obey, and trust in Jesus.
Q. By what means are we saved?
A. By the grace of Christ Whose Blood was poured out for us at Calvary. This Sacrifice is the only means of salvation; by Christ and Christ alone may a man be saved. There is no other way to the Father.
Q.

Why was His Sacrifice necessary? Why did He have to die?
A.

God is infinite Justice and Perfection. Because He is infinite, our sins offend Him infinitely. There is such a chasm between God in His vast perfection and us in our creaturely weakness that nothing we could do could possibly assuage Him for our offenses. But as much as we deserve death, He loves us still and wants us with Him for eternity. In order to restore His honor and maintain the perfection of His justice, there had to be an infinite Sacrifce of appeasement. So, God Himself took on flesh by the Holy Ghost and the Virgin Mary and became man, not only to teach us with His words, but to save us with His Blood. Only God Himself could save us from the effects of our offending Him because we are so imperfect and weak.
Q.

What must we do to accept the fruits of this Sacrifice and be saved?
A.

In three words, “Believe, repent, and obey.” We must:

believe and trust in Christ (John 3:16);

repent and be baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost for the remission of sins (Matthew 28:19, John 3:3-5, Acts 2:38);

obey the will of the Father and keep the commandments (Matthew 7:21, Matthew 19:16-19);

eat the Body of Christ (John 6:51-69) — but not unworthily, and only after discerning the Lord’s Body lest we eat damnation onto ourselves (I Corinthians 11:23-30);

judge ourselves (1 Corinthians 11:28-31) and, when we fall, confess our sins to those to whom Christ has given the authority to forgive sins in His Name, and to obey that authority when it comes to what is bound and loosed (Matthew 9:5-8, Matthew 18:18, John 20:21-23, 2 Corinthians 5:18);

love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love our neighbors as ourselves (Mark 12:30-31).

Relevant Scripture

1 Samuel 2:30
Wherefore the LORD God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me for ever: but now the LORD saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 19:16-19
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 4:14-19
The sower sows the word. And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown; when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word which is sown in them. And these in like manner are the ones sown upon rocky ground, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; and they have no root in themselves, but endure for a while; then, when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away. And others are the ones sown among thorns; they are those who hear the word, but the cares of the world, and the delight in riches, and the desire for other things, enter in and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.

John 15:6
If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned.

John 3:1-7
Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.” In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” “How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!” Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit [Baptism]. You should not be surprised at my saying, `You must be born again.’ [This entire chapter is about baptizing, John the Baptist, “ceremonial washing”, etc.]

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 5:28-29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Romans 2:6
God will render to every man according to his WORKS.

Romans 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the DOERS of the law shall be justified.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Romans 8:29-30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. [Note that the verbs here are in the past tense; Paul is undoubtedly referring to those who’ve died in a state of grace and whose justification and santification have been completed. And don’t read this verse out of context of the one that came 12 verses before it — Romans 8:17, which says that our glorification depends on our suffering along with Christ, and Matthew 22:14 that says “For many are called, but few are chosen.” Being “called” doesn’t mean automatic justification.]

Romans 9:15
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Romans 10:9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 11:17-23
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graff them in again. [In other words, you’re “grafted in,” a part of the New Covenant — but don’t brag because you can be cut off]

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind [It doesn’t say “unless these people have had the experiences of “feeling saved” or having been born again.]

1 Corinthians 9:27
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. [Even Paul wasn’t sure of his own salvation!]

I Corinthians 10:8-12
Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. [NIV: “So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!”]

I Corinthians 13:2
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

1 Corinthians 13:13
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. [Charity is greater than Faith!]

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:4
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which WORKETH BY LOVE.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For BY grace are ye saved THROUGH faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Phillipians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Colossians 1:23-24
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of [lacking in] the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church. [the NKJV and the NIV translate this last part accurately as: “and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.”]

1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your WORK OF FAITH, and LABOUR OF LOVE, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

2 Thessalonians 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the WORK OF FAITH with power:

1 Timothy 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. [RSV: “...worse than an unbeliever.” What is being said here is that “believing” is not enough!]

1 Timothy 6:17-19
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we endure, we shall also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Hebrews 10:26-29
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

2 Peter 2:20-21
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. [the Greek word for knowledge here is epignosei, which means a knowledge from experience, not just intellectual knowledge, which would be oida. In other words, the people being talked about here “knew Christ”, they had a “personal encounter with Christ” and had the experience of “getting saved”; they didn’t just simply “know of Him.”]

2 Peter 3:17-18
...beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever.

1 John 2:24
Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. [in other words, it is possible not continue in the Father and the Son; it is possible to fall away]

James 1:21-27
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But BE YE DOERS OF THE WORD, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

James 2:14-26
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ALSO.

James 5:20
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.


30 posted on 04/09/2013 11:13:41 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace

http://www.fisheaters.com/solafide.html


31 posted on 04/09/2013 11:14:09 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: All

Start around 4:30,

Bishop Sheen/The Devil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z3-F71abro


32 posted on 04/10/2013 11:20:32 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray. Penance.)
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To: johngrace

Thank-you and God Bless. :)


33 posted on 04/11/2013 8:57:50 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: johngrace
So you lawyered up some words from scripture. How new to these posts. lol


---------------------------------------------
Are you going to laugh at Jesus and tell him he lawyered up when it was his style to point out Scripture too?


Mat_4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Mat_4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Mat_4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Mat_11:10 For this is he, of it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Mat_21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Mat_26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

Mar_7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

Mar_9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

Mar_9:13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

Mar_11:17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Mar_14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

Mar_14:27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.




34 posted on 04/12/2013 8:08:14 AM PDT by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
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To: Lera

It is about how we interpret the word. Hello.


35 posted on 04/12/2013 2:02:35 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: Lera
LUKE 18:9-14

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood up and prayed about[a] himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

 photo untitled-44.jpg

Eternal Father, we offer Thee the merits of the Most Precious Blood of Jesus, Thy Beloved Son and my Divine Redeemer, for all my relations, friends and enemies, for the poor, the sick, and those in tribulation, and for all those for whom Thou willest I should pray, or knowest that I ought to pray.

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

Blessed and praised forevermore be Jesus Who hath saved us by His Precious Blood!

36 posted on 04/12/2013 2:12:18 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: fwdude

The rage has been around for a while. There are quite a few people walking around who are insane. They even occupy professional positions. They seem quite normal most of the time.

But all you have to do is disagree with them about some fundamental aspect of the Left’s world view, and they will go into a screaming rage. I had this happen to me thirty years ago, in the middle of a Fortune 20 company.


37 posted on 04/12/2013 2:19:52 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: NYer
Black urban mobs exhibiting irrational anger and hate ...
38 posted on 04/12/2013 2:50:15 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: johngrace
Luke_5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
39 posted on 04/13/2013 8:52:52 PM PDT by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
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To: Lera

Amen! Hello!


40 posted on 04/13/2013 10:33:26 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: NYer

I agree that anybody that voted for Obama had no love for Jesus/God in his or her heart

Same deal for anybody that voted for Clinton, Kerry, Gore or Carter, and probably beyond


41 posted on 02/23/2014 12:59:11 PM PST by Friendofgeorge (Sarah Palin 2016 OR BUST)
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