Posted on 04/10/2013 6:11:50 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
The archbishop of Detroit, Allen Vigneron, told the Detroit Free Press on Sunday that Catholics should not receive Communion while advocating gay marriage:
For a Catholic to receive holy Communion and still deny the revelation Christ entrusted to the church is to try to say two contradictory things at once: “I believe the church offers the saving truth of Jesus, and I reject what the church teaches.” In effect, they would contradict themselves.....
(Excerpt) Read more at firstthings.com ...
Why next the Catholic Church might even stop performing marriages and funeral rites for “abortion rights” politicians...
And get a spine...
And see their flock return to the pews.
That’s why many “hard shell,” charismatic and evangelical churches are full every Sunday.
Yep, those those protestant churches really discipline their members. I’m sure the Southern Baptist Convention will stop pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage Bill Clinton and Al Gore from having “the Lord’s supper” any day now...
Like I said on the other thread, God bless Archbishop Allen Vigneron.
He has it right.
With 80% plus of their members voting republican, Southern Baptists must be doing something right, have Clinton or Gore set foot in a southern Baptist church within the last 20 years or more?
Did the Southern Baptist Pope forbid them or did they just start staying out themselves, if they attended a Southern Baptist church to merely sit in the Pew, did they take Communion?
Probably shouldn’t take communion either if you are into killing, raping, robbing, etc., but hey, it really not a rule, just a suggestion.........
Mormons have an even higher percentage of members voting Republican. It doesn't stop liberal Mormons who are pro-gay like Harry Reid from being Mormons in good standing, just as Bill Clinton is still a Baptist in good graces and Pelosi is allowed to go to Mass at any Catholic church.
>> have Clinton or Gore set foot in a southern Baptist church within the last 20 years or more? <<
They're both still Baptists in good standing, and attend Baptist churches. Whether the churches they attend are SBC affiliated or another type of Baptist church isn't clear. (SBC allows a ton of leeway with local pastors to do what they want, so it is certainly possible for some liberal to find a SBC church that accepts them) Clinton would be photographed all the time during the Monica Lewinski scandal coming out of a Baptist church on Sunday morning with a big bible, which he did for PR purposes to make himself look repentant, etc.
>> Did the Southern Baptist Pope forbid them or did they just start staying out themselves <<
I believe they did as Carter did and opted to stay away from SBC churches themselves, not because they the SBC leadership was disciplining them. (Clinton was repuked by an SBC leader at one point for being pro-abortion, but didn't care, just as Pelosi doesn't when she gets rebuked by Catholic cardinals). Why liberal Catholics want to still attend a church they totally disagree with is beyond me, Carter was at least honest enough to quit his church because he didn't like its teachings.
>> if they attended a Southern Baptist church to merely sit in the Pew, did they take Communion? <<
Clinton and Gore almost certainly take Communion when its available during church. Communion is an ordinance not a sacrament among southern Baptists. Thus, the vast majority of southern Baptist churches practice open communion and state "all are welcome to the lord's supper!". Not only are all their members allowed to receive communion at a southern baptist church, anyone else who showed up for the service would be allowed to have it too. Maybe even a non-Christian (would be interesting to try that sometime)
No, you are way off base, Mormons do not vote as republican as Southern Baptists, they didn’t even vote as republican as the overall Evangelical vote in 2012. There is no more a pro-life, conservative voting denomination than the Southern Baptists.
Like Jimmy Carter, Al Gore formally and publicly left the Southern Baptist denomination and while we don’t know when the last time Clinton set foot inside of a Southern Baptist church, that was a Methodist church that you were watching him go to.
Gore and Clinton do not receive communion like Catholic leaders do, in fact they don’t even attend Southern Baptist churches at all.
It is probably because while the Catholic democrats represent the party the majority of Catholics vote for, Clinton and Gore would be among a denomination and people who opposed their party.
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.
Can I ask what you have against the most pro-life, pro-marriage, conservative, Christian denomination in America?
You seem hostile to the republican voting Southern Baptists.
Can I ask what you have against the most pro-life, pro-marriage, conservative, Christian denomination in America?
You seem hostile to the republican voting Southern Baptists.
SBC has been screwed up for years.
First off, it is a common practice for Southern Baptist parishes in general to have open communion for anyone who attends a service. (if you don't believe me, ask your local Southern Baptist parish). Anyone can receive communion there, including me. There are some Baptists who practice closed communion, but they are a small minority. It is up the discretion of the individual pastor, there is no SBC rule, nor anything like the Catholic church where certain bishops (such as the current Pope when he was Cardinal of Buenos Aires) can make statements barring pro-abortion members from receiving communion.
SBC members lean Republican. They are certainly not Republican than evangelical protestants as a whole however, and certainly not more Republican than Mormons. One of the reasons why is demographics. Many Southern Baptists are black, and they vote no differently than blacks as a whole -- overwhelminging Democrat. (the current President -- not "Pope" of the SBC -- Rev. Fred Luter, is black, and why he "personally disagrees" with Obama over gay marriage, he says he is "my president and I still support him". The current Catholic Pope, Francis, a Hispanic, is much more strongly opposed to Obama's agenda than the current President of the SBC, despite the fact that hispanics overwhemingly support Obama). If you polled most of the SBC parishes on the south side of Chicago, they'd be overwhelmingly in favor of Obama. Obviously, white SBC members would be much more strongly Republican, and most of the SBC is white.
The Catholic vote is a swing vote and very much represents how Americans as a whole vote, no matter how much you want to claim otherwise and pretend Catholics are a solid Democrat voting bloc. Exit polls from every election in the last 60 or so years confirm this: when America votes Republican, Catholics vote Republican. When American votes Democrat, America votes Democrat. America voted for Obama twice, so Catholics voted for Obama twice. When America voted for George W. Bush (in 2004, when he won the "popular vote", Catholics did likewise, and supported him over the Democrat candidate (Kerry), even though Kerry was himself a Catholic and "former altar boy". Catholics likewise voted for Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, Johnson, etc., reflecting how America as a whole voted.
I have nothing against SBC members as a whole. The majority of them are great patriotic Americans and fairly conservative. I admire the SBC teachings on abortion and gay marriage, which mirror the Catholic Church's teachings.
I will not, however, buy into your fantasy world that the SBC disciplines its liberal members in politics, because they don't. Carter and Gore left the SBC on their own accord, not because the SBC was cracking down on them (Carter actually left because the SBC sent him a fundraising letter that "offended" him). Clinton is still SBC, why he chooses not to attend an SBC Church is beyond me, probably for similar reasons that liberal pro-Obama "Catholic" priest Fr. Pfleger only invites liberal protestants and Muslims to speak at his church instead of practicing Catholics (knowing the practicing Catholics would speak out against Obama)
You're also simply wrong in claiming the SBC is uniformly Republican and the Catholic Church is uniformly Democrat. It would be similar to claiming Ohio is a safe Democrat turf whereas Florida is one of the most GOP states in the union. I wonder why you persist in your lies that Catholics are a reliable Democrat voting bloc when the data proves you wrong. What do you have against Catholics, exactly?
Words such as "false" "wrong" "error" do not attribute motive.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Southern Baptists vote more Republican than any other denomination, for instance it was 80% for McCain, higher than for Evangelicals in general, and higher than the followers of the religion of Mormonism.
Catholics of course voted for Obama both times.
I can see that you are naming individuals and attempting to create some false image of voting, but I don’t know why, for instance you are correct that Catholics voted to reelect wartime Bush in 2004 by 52% after voting for Al Gore in 2000, but who didn’t? Heck, the Hispanics who are Protestant voted for Bush by 56% in 2004.
I never said anything about Southern Baptists discipling members, so that is your fantasy, not mine, they don’t even have a Pope.
I can’t help but notice that in your dislike of the Southern Baptists and voting, that your posts are growing longer and more unfocused as you still want to try and create an image of reality, while avoiding the actual reality.
I didn’t know that they had a communion ceremony though.
With 80% plus of their members voting republican, Southern Baptists must be doing something right, have Clinton or Gore set foot in a southern Baptist church within the last 20 years or more?
It looks like no, Gore like Carter, formally left the denomination, and as far as I know, it has been decades since Clinton set foot in one of their churches, we know that he doesn't actually attend any as a member.
I don't think that Clinton or Gore would be sent to receive Communion at the Vatican, during the inauguration of the new Pope, like Biden and Pelosi.
NO, he’ll have it right when he starts denying them communion.
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