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To: Mrs. Don-o
If it was handed on by the Apostles, then it is past of the "treasury" of the Apostolic faith which we all must carefully observe.

Problem is: there is no evidence that this 'treasury' you claim is from the apostles is really from any apostles...In fact, your 'treasury' is contrary to what we 'observe' in the written record; the scriptures...

1 Corinthians 4:16
Therefore I urge you to imitate me.

1 Thessalonians 1:6
You became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you welcomed the message in the midst of severe suffering with the joy given by the Holy Spirit.

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Paul told us to hold fast to the traditions that have been taught (past tense)...We certainly could not be followers of 'tradition' that would occur centuries into the future...

The scriptures give a pretty good description of what the apostles taught and how they acted to give us an example on what to follow...

Peter taught us that we don't bow down to an apostle or any religious figure...Paul taught us that the 'leader's are not to seek the important places like the head of the table or a 'throne', or to wear long robes...Paul taught us that the churches are the people who are the members of the 'Body', not the leadership...

Paul taught us that a Bishop has to have a wife and a good family...Paul taught us that homosexuals are not to be honored in the churches...And certainly would not be acceptable as Bishops or Elders or Pastors...

2Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

So this raises the question...Have all of the Catholic Parishes rejected and distanced themselves from every homosexual religious leader since the time of the apostles to the present??? Or the ones who wear long robes or sit in seats of thos of supposed stature, or any of the many other obvious violations of example laid out in the scriptures???

2Th 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

I don't see where your religion follows after the traditions taught by the apostles hardly at all...

30 posted on 04/12/2013 10:51:02 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool
" Paul told us to hold fast to the traditions that have been taught (past tense)... not be followers of 'tradition' that would occur centuries into the future..."

The Catholic Church's doctrines are not traditions invented or manufactured centuries into the future.

We do, as Paul commanded, "stand fast, and hold the traditions" ---capital-T "Traditions" ---which we have received from Apostolic teachings. E.g., the Nicene Creed, a capital-T Tradition which summarizes, interprets and applies the teachings we have from the Apostles.

The Scriptures are a major part of this: written Tradition. Paul said to observe what they wrote, what they preached, and their example.

Now, think of this. Christ taught His disciples for 40 days between His Resurrection and His Ascension into heaven. But we don't have 40 more books, 40 chapters, or even 40 sentences about this teaching. St. John the Evangelist says if it all were written down, the earth itself would not be big enough to hold all the books.

But (see John, Chapters 14-16 especially) Christ did say that that "the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things ... will remind you of everything I have said to you ...will testify about me...He will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."

This was Christ's promise to us. If we look to what the earliest Christians preached and practiced, we will see truths that came, not from them,but from the Holy Spirit, Who has always been with Christ's Church.

Scripture calls the Church, "the pillar and foundation of the Truth." The Church's doctrines do not negate the truths of Scripture, but rather defend, interpret, and apply them.

"Peter taught us that we don't bow down to an apostle or any religious figure..."

Right: we are to adore nobody other than God. This doesn't exclude showing honor to others. Scripture itself shows people bowing down to, even prostrating before, angels, and honored visitors, Moses, Saul, David, their own parents --- and not sinfully, but with the approval of God Check out 200+ Biblical examples here (Link)

Although we are to "adore" only God, they understood that we may "honor" other human beings, especially those who represent God's authority over us.

Jesus' warnings about pride did not mean that nobody should wear a robe, or that nobody should sit in the front, but that people should not be motivated by personal prestige. They should not love honors, even if they rightfully receive them. Jesus said:

Luke 11:43
“Woe to you Pharisees, because you love the most important seats in the synagogues and respectful greetings in the marketplaces."

I've never seen any church of any sort that didn't have the preacher or pastor in the front of the room, or that didn't greet him respectfully. But they are not to love prestige.

"Paul taught us that the churches are the people who are the members of the 'Body', not the leadership..."

[I presume you mean not "just" the leadership!]Yes, that's right: the Church is the people of God. That's what Catholics are taught.

"Paul taught us that a Bishop has to have a wife and a good family..."

'Has to"? Interesting. Did Paul have a wife? (For that matter, did Jesus?) No. So presumably a leader of the Church, if he were married should be the husband of only one wife, and children who were well-raised. It doesn't mean they HAD TO have a wife. Paul himself repeatedly recommended remaining unmarried (Link).

"Paul taught us that homosexuals are not to be honored in the churches...And certainly would not be acceptable as Bishops or Elders or Pastors..."

The Catholic Church teaches this too.

"So this raises the question...Have all of the Catholic Parishes rejected and distanced themselves from every homosexual religious leader since the time of the apostles to the present??? "

No. In these cases, people had the true Catholic doctrine, and -- because of their slackness or rebellion --- failed to follow it. This is sin: they dissent or depart from what Christ teaches us through the Catholic Church!

Christ told us that there will be tares growing amidst the wheat until the end of time, when the Angels will come and separate the to, and cast the tares into the fire to be burned.

No one should use this as a reason to attack the Church itself. It would be like abandoning the Lord and the Apostles, because most of the Apostles betrayed, denied, or abandoned Him. Yes, they sinned. And yes, they were the Lord's select men. And they--- other than Judas --- later repented and led His flock.

That's the drama of the Church through the centuries, over and over again: betrayal, denial, sin; repentance, restoration, redemption.

48 posted on 04/13/2013 10:09:33 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (" If they refuse to listen even to the Church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.")
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