Posted on 04/29/2013 4:18:02 AM PDT by markomalley
I agree. (I am sure the Bishop of Rome is thrilled by this) :)
Shame is necessary, normal and natural.
We have to have the ability to be ashamed of ourselves. Being shamed by others may or may not make us ashamed. And that may be a good or bad. But we have to be able to be ashamed of our behavior if we want to have any chance of becoming a decent person.
That is the opposite of my experience, but then again, I am in communion with the Church. I have not tried to impose a morality and theology subject to my own experience and reason on the Church.
Peace be with you
It's the old boys club thing.
I've been on the RF long enough to have seen many people say the same thing about Catholics. Of course it would be the opposite from a Catholic who agrees with them.
But be not Catholic, and your reception is anything but warm.
Old boys club Catholics have no idea what it's like to be on the *outside*. The warm and welcoming is only for each other, not the heretics.
I’ve had the opposite reaction. I say I go to church and somebody asks me which one, and when I say St. Lawrence, they, say “oh.” And drop the subject. At that point I usually assume somebody has “issues” with the Catholic church, like a divorce, or being pro-choice, or being a bitter Catholic school graduate.
But my husband came into the Church because people at work knew he was looking for a church and one of his coworkers told him about a Catholic inquiry class that was starting up. So there are some people who do a nice job of inviting, after all.
Yep.... Even if you are Catholic, try moving or switching parishes and feeling welcomed at a new parish. There is actually nothing to prevent a non-Catholic from attending a Catholic Mass. The only thing you wouldn’t be able to do is receive Communion.
One of the most telling stories that came out lately is one about Catholics deciding to return to the Church because of the new pope. The first reaction was that they would totally just leave again when the Church didn’t suddenly approve abortion or gay marriage. And some may do just that. But it is just telling that this was the first reaction to that story rather than isn’t that a nice trend. There are actually quite a few more morally conservative individuals like myself who have just had poor experience with the Church growing up.
It isn’t as if the Catholic Church hasn’t done a pretty good job chasing people away over the past three decades or so.
A few centuries ago I would have been burned at the stake!
I know lots of very conservative Evangelical types that have similar positions on moral issues to Catholics. However, they are also the type who live their faith through their actions.Seems like they conform themselves to the teachings of Jesus instead of to a denomination's teachings. That's a good thing, quite Biblical.
Of course. It's pretty common on FR to have FRoman Catholics presume the worst about why someone left Catholicism. It's never because they disagree with the RCC doctrine, now is it?
Problem is that Catholics have been so indoctrinated that it is simply beyond their comprehension that someone could not be a Catholic simply on the basis of finding differences between what the Bible states and what Catholicism teaches.
Well, newsflash, When I accepted Christ and became a Christian and felt the need to go back to church, I DID start by attending the Catholic church I was raised in. I went for months, and the longer I went, the more discrepancies I saw.
I was invited to attend an Evangelical church and was astounded at the difference in the services and teaching. I vacillated between the two for some months and finally made the break and never looked back.
And contrary to what I've been accused of, it was NOT over an issue of morality or sin in my life, or bitterness. It was a decision made with eyes wide open that I thought through carefully.
Courtesy pinging others who have been in the same boat because I KNOW my story is not so unusual. The people I've met who left the Catholic church have not done it over moral issues, but rather doctrinal, not being able to reconcile the teachings of Catholicism with Scripture.
Very good, hold onto that concept.
The sacrament of Confession is for your benefit
No it isn't. And isn't for the benefit of Catholics who must wait in their sin until confession time when they could be cleansed right away by going directly to Jesus.
there is something to actually admitting something out loud in front of a witness
Sure there is. But that is no reason to not pray to Jesus right away and be cleansed of the sin.
Confessing our faults one to another is a Biblical principle, but so is praying to Jesus for forgiveness. Even without anyone else listening.
It clears the air in a way and focuses the mind of the sinner in a way that “well, He knows what I mean” can’t reach.
That has nothing whatsoever to do with what I posted. That's called a strawman argument. I'm not going to play that game.
Wedding vows are done out loud in front of witnesses, not just assumed to have been made, even though you might be able to tell by looking at them that the couple is loving and committed
Now there is a tangent for ya! Congratulations on your marriage.
Jesus is the Word. He became flesh like us, not just an internal idea in the mind of God. He reached for us the hard way.
Good point. It's great to learn stuff, isn't it?
It stands to reason that mere internal thought of regret for our sin is not the most complete or most committed way for us to reach back.Again, it seems you are inferring that I said anything remotely similar to that statement, which I did NOT.
For the benefit of those reading this thread that may think that was my point, I will repeat that which you are responding to:
Go to Jesus in prayer, confess and ask for forgivenessNow that is way cool, isn't it?Waiting for a time to go to church and into a confessional area, which as has been noted many do not do for various reasons, is unnecessary.
Jesus is our High Priest and the only intermediary between us and God, and He is always there for us.
Everyone should conform to Jesus’ teachings if they are Christian.
What a sad way to live.
For born again Christians with a PERSONAL relationship with Jesus (quite scriptural btw) when praying to Jesus and asking forgiveness we KNOW that Jesus hears us and forgives our sins.
As a matter of fact, He already did it.
He took all of our sins, past present and future, with Him to the cross.
He died in our place for all of our sins.
What a great thing for Him to do!
The blood of Jesus makes us white as snow.
18 “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the Lord, “Though your sins are like scarlet, They shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool.--Isaiah 1:18BTW, the story of the sinner sent to Hell for not attending mass...Wow how unlike God that is!
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! --John 1:29
Amen!
Christian virtues are faith, hope, charity, prudence, justice, restraint or temperance, and courage, but tolerance is not a Christian virtue. Tolerance is an important working principle, but it is not an end in and of itself. Tolerance means respecting people, but does not mean respecting errors.
Too often people expect the Church to do what they personally refuse to do; compromise and go along to get along. Tolerance of grave evil is itself evil and as Christians we are specifically called to reject error, both within ourselves and in others. Opposition to Catholic dogma, whether on issues of divorce, same sex marriage, contraception, Papal authority or abortion will not be tolerated.
Peace be to you
Where do you get your strange Catholic ideas?
How then do you dismiss the sins against hope, those of despair and of presumption?
Peace and blessings to you
You should request forgiveness for those that you have actually wronged. That makes sense to me. It also makes sense that if you are feeling conflicted and upset about a certain failing. For instance, if you are having marital problems, then it would make sense to seek out a trusted religious figure. However, as I’ve pointed out, lots of Catholics have had sour experiences with priests. My father goes to Mass on a regular basis, but the last time he went to confession was when I was in grade school. The main reason is that he has had very sour experiences with Catholic priests. When his mother was dying and wanted to talk with a priest, the local parish priest wasn’t there for him.
Also, I agree it is sort of odd to have to go to confession even after you’ve apologized to an offended party.
There is a major inconsistency in your theology. If, as you purport in post #52, that all of our sins, past present and future are already forgiven, why would you need to confess them at all?
Peace be with you
The word “confession” has the connotation of “naming it as He names it”, in other words, coming clean with God. If we really understand that NOTHING is hidden before Him and that every secret we have He already knows, then confession, a GOOD confession, entails no rationalization, no justification, no excuses just laying it all on the table whether between us and God OR to a trusted “confessor”. The amazing wonder and beauty is that, when we honestly do this, He IS faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. What a wonderful and loving God we serve!
...tolerance is not a Christian virtue.
Nothing about tolerance was in the post you responded to.
Do you have a response to what the poster posted?
It was about Catholic being cold to Christians and treating them with an air of superiority.
I wonder if you came to Catholicism from being a Mormon, as they use a similar tactic, responding to something different that which was mentioned.
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