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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

No, my position is completely supported. God is not bound to come upon the person who is or isn’t baptized in water. God says to man, I will do this and you must do that. God makes promises which HE keeps and man is called to obey God’s commands. So, God is bound by HIMSELF and not man.

It’s not complicated.

You are correct, I should not have included Peter as one who was shocked, but that does not negate the fact that Cornelius is being used here as a lesson to the others. Remember, that Peter had just seen the vision when he was called to go to Cornelius and was not sure why.

So, okay, he wasn’t shocked. More like he was a little unsure. Cornelius was the first of the Gentiles. Peter needed to be shown God’s intent, which was made known to him first through the vision, then through Cornelius.

One cannot describe baptism as “the actions of men” without affirming that that very action was commanded by God. The Apostles and the Church did not invent baptism, nor do they command God to come upon one being baptized. The Apostles and the Church obey what they were commanded.

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Peter states they had received the Holy Ghost in the same way they have. Unless you believe that the Holy Spirit only stays with the believer temporarily, or that the Holy Spirit filling a man is not the same as His being regenerated and baptized by the Spirit as promised by Christ Himself?

As for previously, it is clear that there is a tremendous difference between the Apostles before and after Pentecost. Before Pentecost, there were things they could not even understand. Even Peter played the coward and denied Christ three times. Yet, after Pentecost, that same Peter is boldly declaring the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

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This is all a red herring.

Did Peter and the others receive the Holy Spirit twice? If not, what did they receive when Jesus breathed upon him? Because Jesus said receive the Holy Spirit.

Why were they only changed men at Pentecost and not after receiving the Holy Spirit in the upper room 40 days before?

This is what happens when one reads Scripture a verse at a time instead of seeing the whole picture. What one has with this method of eisegesis is a small piece of the puzzle which could be anything or nothing according to the one handling the piece.

The Church fits the pieces together under the guidance and inspiration of the Holy Spirit to form a cohesive theology rooted in Scripture so that her doctrines are sound and not subject to piecemeal confusion.

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In the Old Testament period, the Holy Spirit’s presence with the individual was dependent and temporary. In the New Testament period, the Holy Spirit takes up permanent residence in the believer.
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Jesus said, If you abide in me, I will abide in you. Or as some translate it, If you remain in me, I will remain in you. What happens if one decides to no longer abide/remain in Jesus?


40 posted on 05/09/2013 9:00:20 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: Jvette

“So, God is bound by HIMSELF and not man.”


And I agree with you, which is why I reject your theology.

“Remember, that Peter had just seen the vision when he was called to go to Cornelius and was not sure why.”


This simply isn’t true. Here is what Peter was saying before the Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius and his family, demonstrating that he knew that the Gentiles also should be converted.

Act 10:28-36 And he (Peter) said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean... (34) Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: (35) But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. (36) The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

“Did Peter and the others receive the Holy Spirit twice? If not, what did they receive when Jesus breathed upon him? Because Jesus said receive the Holy Spirit.”


Unless you hold that the Holy Spirit comes and goes, and that there is no difference between New Testament infillings and Old Testament infillings, then you are in quite a theological conundrum.

“Why were they only changed men at Pentecost and not after receiving the Holy Spirit in the upper room 40 days before?”


They received the Holy Spirit in the upper room on Pentecost:

Act 2:1-4 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. (2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. (3) And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. (4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

This is the same event that occurs to the Gentiles prior to water baptism in Acts 10.

“Jesus said, If you abide in me, I will abide in you. Or as some translate it, If you remain in me, I will remain in you. What happens if one decides to no longer abide/remain in Jesus?”


When God gives a command, it does not imply that we have the moral ability to perform it of ourselves. Christ commands us to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect, but yet none of us are perfect. Paul famously describes his own war with his flesh in Romans, doing that which he does not want to do, and not being able to do that which he would like to do. Is Paul in and out of abiding with Christ? He certainly is not perfect, as Christ commanded.

Christ, instead, teaches that salvation depends entirely on God. He declares, for example, that it is impossible to come to Him unless it is given to us by the Father:

Joh 6:64-65 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. (65) And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

We are told that it is not the Christian who chooses Christ, but rather it is Christ who chooses us and ordains us for good (and abiding!) works:

Joh_15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Yes, we are told to “work out our salvation,” but right afterwards we are told that it is God who works in us for to will and to do:

Php 2:12-13 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Isa_26:12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.

Therefore, no man can claim to abide in Christ by His own obedience, power or merits, but must ascribe all of it to the power and glory of God alone.


41 posted on 05/09/2013 9:14:10 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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