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To: Cvengr

Worst than that. When born, we still lack a human spirit regenerated in fellowship with God. That doesn’t happen until forgiveness, which occurs after we face Him and receive what He provided on the Cross. Children prior to the age of accountability and the mentally deficient never have the opportunity to face Him and consider the Gospel, so God is free to give them a regenerated spirit should they die physically and soulishly before they are given the opportunity to consider Him.

We are condemned first, before salvation.


Precisely. This is why one author felt challenged by the “eternally suffering” dogma. To carry it forward:

1. God knew Adam and Eve would eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil and “become like Us.”
2. A single sin makes you incapable of being in eternity with God.
3. Through the one man sin entered all men, just as through the one man, Jesus, all may be saved from that sin.
4. Assuming those that believe the bible teaches eternally suffering, our God is a God that created mankind with a “default condition” that most of mankind will find themselves in. This default condition is that they will be tortured more aggressively than any human despot has ever tortured a man, and it will go on into eternity.

Imagine you have never heard of Christianity and someone brings the message to you in that form: Eternal life, but if, on the scant evidence provided, you don’t believe, you will be tortured in ways incomprehensible for a time incomprehensible.

What sane man would come to such a “god” with a free will. Rather, the man would be conquered out of raw fear. Love would be utterly absent. No wonder so many people think Christianity is nuts.

However, Proverbs says, twice, “There is a way that seems right to man, but its end is death.” There’s that word again, “death”.


249 posted on 05/26/2013 4:25:32 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: cuban leaf; Cvengr; Greetings_Puny_Humans
What sane man would come to such a “god” with a free will. Rather, the man would be conquered out of raw fear. Love would be utterly absent. No wonder so many people think Christianity is nuts.

Have you ever heard of the popular atheist, Christopher Hitchens? He so viciously hated God that he mocked those who would rejoice in going to heaven. He said he couldn't imagine a worse eternity than singing praises and worshiping God forever! I guess to people like him your theology would be welcome. Don't like the idea of a just and holy God? No biggie, you'll just cease to exist - you will not have an eternity and you won't care because you won't have any consciousness of it anyway! Mr. Hitchens is now experiencing the folly of his "wisdom"...he died last year.

268 posted on 05/26/2013 3:20:07 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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