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LDS seminary teacher charged with burglary, theft of prescription drugs
KSL.com ^ | June 5, 2013 | Geoff Liesek

Posted on 06/06/2013 5:20:47 AM PDT by Colofornian

ROOSEVELT — A man responsible for teaching religious education classes to LDS high school students is facing criminal charges after investigators say he burglarized a home on a Sunday afternoon to steal prescription painkillers.

Brian Dean Thacker was charged Wednesday in 8th District Court with burglary, a second-degree felony, theft, a class B misdemeanor, and possession of a controlled substance, a class B misdemeanor.

On May 26, Thacker entered a home about 2 p.m. and took Lortab from a medicine cabinet, according to Duchesne County sheriff's detective Dela Rowley.

A woman was upstairs in the home at the time and heard Thacker moving around downstairs, Rowley said. She waited until Thacker left and then looked out the window and recognized him, the detective said.

Thacker, 42, was interviewed after the incident was reported to the sheriff's office. He corroborated the woman's account of what happened and admitted to taking Lortab from the home, Rowley said.

Thacker served as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints seminary teacher for Union High School during the 2012-13 academic year. Prior to that, he was the seminary teacher for LDS students at Altamont High School.

"The church expects the highest level of conduct from its seminary teachers," LDS Church spokeswoman Ruth Todd said. "Brian Thacker is on administrative leave."

So far investigators do not believe Thacker was using prescription painkillers while teaching seminary classes or soliciting medication from his students, Rowley said.

Thacker has entered an inpatient drug treatment program. His first court appearance is set for June 27.


TOPICS: Current Events; Moral Issues; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: burglary; lds; mormonism; seminaryteacher
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From the article: ROOSEVELT — A man responsible for teaching religious education classes to LDS high school students is facing criminal charges after investigators say he burglarized a home on a Sunday afternoon to steal prescription painkillers. Brian Dean Thacker was charged Wednesday in 8th District Court with burglary, a second-degree felony, theft, a class B misdemeanor, and possession of a controlled substance, a class B misdemeanor. On May 26, Thacker entered a home about 2 p.m. and took Lortab from a medicine cabinet, according to Duchesne County sheriff's detective Dela Rowley. A woman was upstairs in the home at the time and heard Thacker moving around downstairs, Rowley said. She waited until Thacker left and then looked out the window and recognized him, the detective said. Thacker, 42, was interviewed after the incident was reported to the sheriff's office. He corroborated the woman's account of what happened and admitted to taking Lortab from the home, Rowley said. Thacker served as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints seminary teacher for Union High School during the 2012-13 academic year. Prior to that, he was the seminary teacher for LDS students at Altamont High School.


Another Lds Seminary teacher from three years ago: Ex-LDS Seminary principal gets 5-to-life for abusing student

1 posted on 06/06/2013 5:20:47 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

What does it matter if the perp is LDS, Baptist, Catholic or Orthodox Jew? The story is about a burglary.


2 posted on 06/06/2013 6:28:51 AM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: Colofornian

I wonder how he KNEW those drugs would be there??


3 posted on 06/06/2013 7:02:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JimRed
What does it matter if the perp is LDS, Baptist, Catholic or Orthodox Jew? The story is about a burglary.

The back story is that MORMONs are much better than everyone else.

4 posted on 06/06/2013 7:03:29 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian

How many thefts have been prevented by Mormons?


5 posted on 06/06/2013 7:26:43 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: Elsie
..MORMONs are much better than everyone else

How long have you believed that? Are you a Mormon?

6 posted on 06/06/2013 7:28:09 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: JimRed

Talk to the reporter.


7 posted on 06/06/2013 7:30:27 AM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: laotzu

hahaha That’s what mormons say about themselves, “they are better”.


8 posted on 06/06/2013 7:33:22 AM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: svcw; Elsie
That’s what mormons say about themselves, “they are better”.

Elsie said that. Is she a Mormon?

9 posted on 06/06/2013 7:39:32 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: laotzu

No


10 posted on 06/06/2013 7:41:30 AM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: svcw; Elsie

Why ascribe to Mormons that which Elsie does?


11 posted on 06/06/2013 7:44:39 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: laotzu

?


12 posted on 06/06/2013 8:15:38 AM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: svcw
Why ascribe to Mormons that which Elsie does?

I do not intend to be a smart aleck, just as I am sure you are not feigning an illiterate.

Which word gives you the most trouble.

13 posted on 06/06/2013 8:26:49 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: laotzu
Joseph Smith made the following claim:
 
 “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion,
and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”  
 
 --- Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.
 
 
 
 
No.

14 posted on 06/06/2013 8:47:12 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie; svcw
Why, do you think, does svcw ascribe your opinion to Mormons?

It is really none of my business, but; are you a Mormon?

15 posted on 06/06/2013 8:55:58 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: laotzu; Elsie

I am not a mormon.
Elsie refers to mormons as such because that’s how they refer to themselves.
It’s pretty simple really.


16 posted on 06/06/2013 9:26:53 AM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: laotzu
How many thefts have been prevented by Mormons?

Do you know how many thefts were prevented by Mormons? Are you a Mormon? We do know they didn't prevent this one! It must have slipped through 'the cracks'.

17 posted on 06/06/2013 9:29:34 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: laotzu

1. I don’t mind read.

2. No.


18 posted on 06/06/2013 11:50:28 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: presently no screen name
Do you know how many thefts were prevented by Mormons?

The question that is REALLY important (IMHO) is...

"How many non-Faith building stories have been KEPT from media attention by MORMONism, Inc.?"

19 posted on 06/06/2013 11:52:28 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: svcw; Elsie; Greetings_Puny_Humans
Elsie refers to mormons as such("they are better") because that’s how they refer to themselves.

I have never heard that from them, only from Elsie. However; I do not doubt your assertion.

Of course, fans say the Dallas Mavericks are better. They are desperately wrong, of course, but hardly worthy of serious ridicule.
(well, maybe a little)

It is simply not possible that no Mormon is decent enough to stop a crime given the chance. The few I have met were exceptionally honorable.

20 posted on 06/07/2013 7:14:56 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: presently no screen name
Do you know how many thefts were prevented by Mormons? Are you a Mormon?

No; I'm afraid I do not know. However; there are several of our fellow Freepers that maintain an extensive data base of information on Mormons. Perhaps they could be of help to us.

Similarly, I have no idea how many Catholics, Floridians, or florists have prevented thefts. My money is on gun owners.

I am not a Mormon, a Catholic, a Floridian, a Mavericks fan, or a florist. Thanks for your interest.

21 posted on 06/07/2013 7:23:51 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: laotzu
The few I have met were exceptionally honorable.

This is also the testimony of a LOT of folks who have met a 'few' of them.

22 posted on 06/07/2013 8:29:04 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: laotzu; teppe; District13
I have never heard that from them, only from Elsie.

(You might need a little salt...)




 

MORMON
ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY
 

  1. I’m Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you don’t!
  2. I’m Superior; I have God’s true priesthood power -- you don’t!
  3. I’m Superior; I can go in God’s secret Temple -- you can’t!
  4. I’m Superior; I’ve been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- you’re just normal!
  5. I’m Superior; I’ll have my family with me in heaven -- you’ll be with strangers!
  6. I’m Superior; I’m becoming a God -- you aren’t!
  7. I’m Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours don’t.
  8. I’m Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures).
  9. I’m Superior; I don’t HAVE a creed - I’ve got 13 Articles of Faith.
10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly.
11. I’m Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. —                           -- You can’t.
12. I’m Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics -- 
                           -- You’re a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't.
14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't
15. I’m Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself.
16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't.
17. I’m Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you don’t.
18. I’m Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you don’t ;so you can’t.
19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't.
20. I’m Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably                              -- You’re on your own; when you get to wherever you’re going!
21. I’m Superior; I’m going to hie to Kolob -- you’re going to who knows where.
22. I’m Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you don’t.
23. I’m Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple
                            -- You have nothing but a stupid cross.
24. I’m Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty.
25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy  (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!)
26.  I'm superior; I have the "higher law" -- everyone else "lives under the "lesser law' because I say so...(over and over).
 
 
Revision 46.5
Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.
All rights liable to be abused.

23 posted on 06/07/2013 8:31:35 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY

Pretty interesting poster. Where might I find more information about its author?

I notice that it is footnoted "Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans".

Do you know who that is, and where I may find out more about them?

Any help is appreciated.

24 posted on 06/07/2013 8:48:22 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: laotzu; Elsie; svcw

“I notice that it is footnoted “Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans” .

Do you know who that is, and where I may find out more about them?”


There is one rule of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans . . . .


25 posted on 06/07/2013 9:30:29 AM PDT by freedomlover
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To: laotzu; teppe; District13
Where might I find more information about its author?

Right here; of course.

Stay tuned and/or search the archives...


I can give a list of previously active MORMON apologist that post on FR. You could ask THEM if any of the statements are untrue; but whenever I ping them to something that might interest them, they either IGNORE the ping or get REALLLY huffy about it!


Right, teppe?

Right District13??

26 posted on 06/07/2013 10:51:09 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: freedomlover
There is one rule of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans . . . .

Yeah...

We don't have a LIST of Rules like the MORMON missionaries do.

27 posted on 06/07/2013 10:53:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Utah Binger
Binger; woodja like to reminisce about the good ol' days??




The Rules

  1. Learn and obey all missionary rules.
  2. Keep your thoughts, words, and actions in harmony with the gospel message.
  3. Read only books, magazines, and other material authorized by the Church.
  4. Don't debate or argue.
  5. Center your mind on your mission.
  6. Dress conservatively. Elders: white shirts, conservative ties, and business suits. Sisters: conservative colors and skirts that cover your knees. No floor-length skirts or dresses.
  7. Cut your hair regularly.
  8. Keep your hair clean and neatly combed at all times in the approved style.
  9. Be neat and clean.
  10. Bathe frequently.
  11. Use deodorant.
  12. Polish your shoes.
  13. Iron your shirt and business suit.
  14. Arise at 6:30 A.M.
  15. Study for 2 hours every morning.
  16. Proselytize for 10 hours between 9:30 A.M. and 9:30 P.M.
  17. Turn off your lights at 10:30 P.M.
  18. Exercise regularly.
  19. Write in your journal regularly.
  20. Follow the "Missionary Gospel Study Program" (31157) for your personal study.
  21. Regularly study the Missionary Guide and the Discussions.
  22. Attend Sunday priesthood or Relief Society meetings, Sunday School, and sacrament meeting.
  23. Attend the general session of Stake Conference.
  24. Attend general conference broadcasts if available.
  25. Avoid all other church meetings unless you have a special assignment or are brining an investigator.
  26. Proselytize as much as possible on weekends and holidays because this is when you'll find people home.
  27. End your preparation day at 6:00 P.M. and proselytize from 6:00 P.M. to 9:30 P.M.
  28. Wear your missionary uniform in public on preparation day while not engaged in recreational activities.
  29. Arise at 6:30 on preparation day and study for 2 hours from the approved books.
  30. Take care of your physical preparation for the week on preparation day: wash your clothes, clean your apartment, wash your car, get your haircut, and shop for groceries.
  31. Write to your parents every week on preparation day.
  32. Write less frequently to your siblings, friends, and acquaintances.
  33. Don't communicate with any friends or acquaintances that are within or close to your mission boundaries, except as a part of official mission business.
  34. Plan safe, wholesome, and uplifting activities for preparation day.
  35. Stay with your companion during all activities.
  36. Do not go on road trips.
  37. Do not leave your assigned area without permission
  38. Do not watch television.
  39. Do not view unauthorized videocassettes.
  40. Do not listen to the radio.
  41. Do not listen to unauthorized audiocassettes or CD’s.
  42. Do not participate in musical groups.
  43. Do not participate in athletic teams.
  44. Do not sponsor athletic teams.
  45. Do not engage in contact sports.
  46. Do not engage in water sports.
  47. Do not engage in winter sports.
  48. Do not engage in motorcycling.
  49. Do not engage in horseback riding.
  50. Do not engage in mountain climbing.
  51. Do not embark on a private boat.
  52. Do not embark in a private airplane.
  53. Do not handle firearms.
  54. Do not handle explosives.
  55. Do not swim.
  56. Do not play full court basketball.
  57. Do not play basketball in leagues.
  58. Do not play basketball in tournaments.
  59. You may play half-court basketball.
  60. Never be alone.
  61. Seek advice from your mission president if your companion is "having difficulties".
  62. Be loyal to your companion.
  63. Ask your mission president for help if your companion doesn’t obey the rules.
  64. Pray with your companion every day.
  65. Study with your companion every day.
  66. Plan your work with your companion every day.
  67. Take time at least once a week for companionship inventory.
  68. Seek to be one in spirit and purpose and help each other succeed.
  69. Always address your companion as Elder or Sister.
  70. Sleep in the same bedroom as your companion.
  71. Do not sleep in the same bed as your companion.
  72. Do not arise before your companion.
  73. Do not retire after your companion. (apparently, being together is more important than getting the correct amount of sleep that your unique body requires.)
  74. Frequently study with your companion the Missionary Guide section on companions.
  75. Never be alone with anyone of the opposite sex.
  76. Never associate inappropriately with anyone of the opposite sex (conversely, they don't mention whether or not it is against the rules to associate inappropriately with anyone of the same sex).
  77. Do not flirt.
  78. Do not date.
  79. Do not communicate via phone or letter with anyone of the opposite sex living within or near mission boundaries.
  80. Do not visit a single or divorced person of the opposite sex unless accompanied by a couple or another adult member of your sex.
  81. Try to teach single investigators in a member’s home or have missionaries of the same sex teach them.
  82. Always follow the above rules, even if the situation seems harmless.
  83. Use the commitment pattern to get referrals from members.
  84. Keep your dinner visits with member briefs and during the customary dinner hour in the area.
  85. Remember to say thank you to those who feed you.
  86. Visit members and nonmembers only at appropriate times.
  87. Do not counsel or give medical treatment.
  88. Do not stay in the homes of people when they are on vacation.
  89. Only write letters to family members and friends at home.
  90. Do not telephone parents
  91. Do not telephone relatives.
  92. Do not telephone friends.
  93. Do not telephone girlfriends.
  94. Contact your mission president in case of an emergency.
  95. Take problems and questions to your mission president.
  96. Do not write to the President of the Church or to other General Authorities. Letters from missionaries to General Authorities are referred back to the mission president
  97. Respect the customs, traditions, and property of the people who you are trying to convert.
  98. Obey all mission rules.
  99. Obey the laws of the land.
  100. Do not get involved in politics.
  101. Do not get involved in commercial activities.
  102. Do not give any information about the area.
  103. Respect the customs and cultures of those who you are trying to convert to your own customs and culture.
  104. Respect the beliefs, practices, and sites of other religions.
  105. Do not say or write anything bad about the political and cultural circumstances where you serve.
  106. Do not become involved in adoption proceedings.
  107. Do not suggest or encourage emigration. (This rule is a bit ironic, given the now-defunct doctrine of gathering the believers to Zion)
  108. Be courteous.
  109. Provide community service.
  110. Do not provide community service that isn’t approved by your mission president.
  111. Do not provide more than 4 hours a week of community service.
  112. Do not provide community service during the evening, weekend or holidays—those are peek proselytizing times.
  113. Your mission president must approve your housing.
  114. Keep your housing unit clean.
  115. Do not live with single or divorced people of the opposite sex.
  116. Do not live where the spouse is frequently absent.
  117. Your living unit must have a private bath and entrance.
  118. You may occasionally fast for a special reason, but generally the monthly fast is sufficient.
  119. Do not fast longer than 24 hours at a time.
  120. Do not ask friends, relatives, and members to join in special fasts for investigators.
  121. Maintain your health.
  122. Eat a healthy diet.
  123. Sleep from 10:30 to 6:30.
  124. Follow the approved exercise program.
  125. Keep your body, clothes, dishes, linens, towels and housing unit clean.
  126. Dispose of your garbage properly and promptly.
  127. Follow the safety rules for all of your stuff.
  128. Seek medical care if you are in an accident or become sick.
  129. Be immunized.
  130. Spend your money only on things relating to your mission.
  131. Budget your money carefully.
  132. Keep a record of what you spend.
  133. Do not spend more than your companion.
  134. Do not loan money.
  135. Do not borrow money.
  136. Keep a reserve fund of $50 to $100 at all times for transfers.
  137. Pay your bills before leaving an area.
  138. Pay cash for all resale literature and supplies ordered from the mission office.
  139. Do not waste money on souvenirs.
  140. Do not waste money on unnecessary items.
  141. Be a frugal photographer.
  142. Do not accumulate excess baggage.
  143. Obey custom laws and regulations.
  144. Pay fast offerings each fast Sunday to the bishop or branch president where you serve.
  145. Pay tithing on outside sources of income (i.e. interest) to your home bishop or branch president.
  146. Evaluate your funds a few months before the end of your mission. If you have more than you need, ask that less be sent so that you can return home without excess money.
  147. Do not drive without a license.
  148. Drive only Church-owned vehicles.
  149. Do not drive members’ cars.
  150. Do not drive nonmembers’ cars.
  151. Do not give rides to members or investigators in Church-owned cars.
  152. Use cars only on approved mission business.
  153. Use cars only within the assigned geographical area.
  154. Be conscious of safety at all times.
  155. Drive defensively.
  156. Wear your seat belt.
  157. Pray for the Lord’s protection while driving.
  158. If your companion is driving, assist him or her.
  159. Do not tamper with the vehicle’s odometer.
  160. Know bicycle safety rules.
  161. Use extreme caution on your bicycle.
  162. Do not ride your bicycle after dark.
  163. Do not ride your bicycle in heavy traffic.
  164. Do not ride your bicycle in adverse weather conditions.
  165. Go directly to your new area when transferred.
  166. Find your new companion without delay when transferred.
  167. Have a maximum of two suitcases and a briefcase.

28 posted on 06/07/2013 10:55:19 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Ribe, Denmark 1960 I loved those Danish girls!


29 posted on 06/07/2013 11:43:30 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: laotzu
Perhaps they could be of help to us.

US? I didn't ask something that is impossible to know. Even the mormons couldn't answer it.

However; there are several of our fellow Freepers that maintain an extensive data base of information on Mormons

Then you are to thank them if you learned something and not ask them something no one can know. You asked the same question how many did they prevent on another mormon thread the same day about rapes.

30 posted on 06/07/2013 1:10:37 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Elsie
Now that is cultist bondage of the highest order! It's like they are the 'parents' of all their subjects. CONTROL! CONTROL! CONTROL! “in order that no advantage be taken of us by Satan; for we are not ignorant of his schemes” (2 Corinthians 2:11)

Intimidation and control are tactics of satan - which he uses in all 'man made teachings' religions which they are all obeying satan. He fulfilled his wish where he has people bowing to him instead of Jesus.

31 posted on 06/07/2013 1:34:34 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: laotzu

“It is simply not possible that no Mormon is decent enough to stop a crime given the chance. The few I have met were exceptionally honorable.”


We had one run for President, and he was as duplicitous as his religion when it comes to revising his history and dealing with his Christian conservative opponents. The LDS have made thousands of changes to their holy writ, allegedly written down perfect the first time, so it’s no surprise that Mittens was always rewriting his own history too.


32 posted on 06/07/2013 2:41:27 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
 The LDS have made thousands of changes to their holy writ, allegedly written down perfect the first time, so it’s no surprise that Mittens was always rewriting his own history too.
 
 
allegedly?
 
ALLEGEDLY!!!???




"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."
---Joseph Knight's journal.


"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.
(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),
"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,
as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,
and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."


"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"
reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881
in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:
 
 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,
Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12
June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)


Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:
 
"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"
("A New Witness for Christ in America,"
Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)


"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."
---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.




33 posted on 06/07/2013 3:14:19 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JimRed

“What does it matter if the perp is LDS, Baptist, Catholic or Orthodox Jew? The story is about a burglary.”

Because if it’s a Mormon - oh boy - the anti Mormonism freepers can have a field day!!


34 posted on 06/07/2013 6:08:29 PM PDT by District13 (I miss my country!)
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To: laotzu

“It is simply not possible that no Mormon is decent enough to stop a crime given the chance. The few I have met were exceptionally honorable.”

I am a Mormon and the Mormons I know are all decent, God fearing, Jesus loving, family oriented every day folk. I don’t know why we are so loathed on this site. Anyway, thank you for your input.


35 posted on 06/07/2013 6:12:17 PM PDT by District13 (I miss my country!)
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To: Elsie

“Never associate inappropriately with anyone of the opposite sex (conversely, they don’t mention whether or not it is against the rules to associate inappropriately with anyone of the same sex).”

Please do not change the rules to suit your own agenda. Homosexual behavior is not tolerated. Period - and you know it.


36 posted on 06/07/2013 6:16:40 PM PDT by District13 (I miss my country!)
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To: District13
I don’t know why we are so loathed on this site.

I do. Fundies cannot tolerate anyone who dares to interpret the Scripture some other way than they do, which is to say at least 30,000 different ways for each of their sects, and hundreds of millions different ways for each one of them, since part of their dogma is personal interpretation trumps all. Therefore, the Mormons and the Catholics are despised, snake charmers, Harold Campings, Jim Joneses, the Crouches, the Bakkers, various Marjoes and the preacher cousins of Jerry Lee Lewis are revered.

37 posted on 06/07/2013 6:19:46 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: presently no screen name; Elsie

Elsie’s rules in post #28 are for LDS Missionaries who are volunteers and who devote 2 years (for men) 18 months (for women). They volunteer for the love of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to bless everyone they come in contact with. The rules are to help the Missionaries stay true and faithful. I don’t know why some people want to make fun of them.


38 posted on 06/07/2013 6:20:37 PM PDT by District13 (I miss my country!)
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To: presently no screen name

“He fulfilled his wish where he has people bowing to him instead of Jesus.”

Jesus Christ is my Savior. He is everything to me. You have a false idea about Mormons. It’s not much fun being told that I worship satan, the father of all lies. But it’s a free country. Question: Would you say that about Jews or Catholics? Of course not, but for some reason it’s OK - even politically correct - to dump on Mormons. Whatever. I’ve heard it all. I’ve been harassed by the loudest, meanest, most obnoxious anti MormonISM people on earth. And our Missionaries are harassed and tormented during their volunteer missions. One Sister Missionary had a bucket of water dumped on her. They throw tomatoes and rotten fruit. And guess what? Our Missionaries know that this is persecution for the sake of serving our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ. So bring it on!!!!!!!!!! We rejoice and love our Savior even more.


39 posted on 06/07/2013 6:33:15 PM PDT by District13 (I miss my country!)
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To: Revolting cat!

Think about it. The guy they wrote about in the article is a thief - misdemeanor, no less - but that’s not what they are concentrating on. They just live to point out that he is a Mormon. Any Mormon is fair game. Nothing is off limits, no matter how vile.

Anyway, thank you for your comments.


40 posted on 06/07/2013 6:39:00 PM PDT by District13 (I miss my country!)
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To: District13
You have a false idea about Mormons

You have a false idea about me - it's not the Mormons (I don't know any)but Mormonism and their man-made teachings that deceive.

And if I did know any, you betcha I show them what God's Word says and explain it to them while making them a tomato sandwich or two and not throwing it at them. Then it's up to them to 'get it' or not.

Forgot about what you think you know - his is persecution for the sake of serving our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ. So bring it on!!!!!!!!!! We rejoice and love our Savior even more. It's not the Lord you are serving, it is 'man/evil'. JESUS doesn't dwell where 'man made teachings' are. Those who are under 'it' have made their choice to NOT be with HIM/HIS WORD ALONE.

But it’s a free country.

And you had a free choice what to BELIEVE. And you choose 'man/evil'.

So bring it on!!!!!!!!!!

Time is short, it's coming, and remember you brought it on yourself!!!!

41 posted on 06/07/2013 11:14:49 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Revolting cat!
cannot tolerate anyone who dares to interpret the Scripture some other way than they do

Scripture? If Mormonism ONLY followed God's Word why do they have 'man-made teachings' coming from 'their church' for 'their subjects' to hear and obey?

The Spirit of God, the HOLY SPIRIT, is the Teacher of His Word as it is spiritually discerned. And what 'sect' is that?

Harold Campings, Jim Joneses, the Crouches, the Bakkers, various Marjoes and the preacher cousins of Jerry Lee Lewis are revered.

You seem 'up' are snake charmers - what do they teach their followers? I know Jim Jones was into killing 'his followers' to stay with him. While Jesus gave His Life for all to be 'free'.

Evil is rampant and the results are destruction.

"“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to DESTRUCTION, and MANY enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to LIFE, and only a FEW find it." Matt 7:13,14

JESUS ALONE is The WAY, The TRUTH, The LIFE.

Jesus answered, “I am The Way and The Truth and The Life. NO ONE comes to the Father except through Me." John 14:6

JESUS is The WORD.

"And The WORD was made flesh, and dwelt among us." John 1:14

No one comes to The Father through man-made teachings despite what 'man' teaches them. They are going to 'another'.

42 posted on 06/08/2013 12:14:24 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: District13; Elsie
Last week, I visited an atheist site named Freedom From Religion. The site contained a quiz for visitors to determine how well they knew the Bible.

I'm sure that it was clever, and gave the appearance of expertise. However, as atheists they clearly have an agenda, and I would not trust their assertions about what the Bible says.

I have heard Nancy Pelosi wax poetic about the Catholic Church, and what a good Catholic she is. However; she clearly disagrees with the Church, and I would not trust her assertions about it.

I have heard Ayatollahs articulate how evil the Jewish faith and people are. Khameni clearly hates the Jews and his assertions about them are untrustworthy.

I have heard President Clinton convince my fellow Americans that Republicans want to starve children. However; Clinton does not like Republicans and cannot be trusted to offer a trustworthy description of them.

Clearly, there are many at FreeRepublic that do not approve of Mormons; that preach that Mormons are blasphemous, heretical hypocrites. Like Pelosi, they offer themselves as knowledgable experts painting an accurate picture.

43 posted on 06/08/2013 6:30:28 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: presently no screen name

You don’t know any Mormons but you say you know everything about what we believe. I find that odd. You believe everything you read on the Internet? That is Gospel to you? Oh, well; I see it would be useless to have a meaningful dialog since you already have made up your mind. Your mind is closed.

I say that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior but you do not believe me. “Jesus Christ is Lord!” You apparently do not believe the Bible because if you did you would know that I could not say that unless the power of the Holy Ghost were helping me.

I believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost and was baptized thus - under the precious waters of baptism.

God bless you.
www.Mormon.org
www.lds.org


44 posted on 06/08/2013 6:58:41 AM PDT by District13 (I miss my country!)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
We had one run for President, and he was as duplicitous as his religion when it comes to revising his history and dealing with his Christian conservative opponents.
--Greetings_Puny_Humans

"As for the one Mormon running for office. Those who really believe in God will defeat him anyways. So don't worry about that, that's a temporary situation."
--The 'Rev' Al Sharpton

45 posted on 06/08/2013 7:55:35 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: District13
Because if it’s a Mormon - oh boy - the anti Mormonism freepers can have a field day!!

At LEAST you are getting it right!!

MormonISM

46 posted on 06/08/2013 8:33:54 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: District13
I don’t know why we are so loathed on this site.

And yet you flip to personalize Christianity's LOATHING of false gospels and false prophets.

You individual MORMONs are NOT 'loathed' here; but LOVED.

Why else would ANYONE in their right mind waste their time with trying to get the FACTS about MormonISM a greater airing?

47 posted on 06/08/2013 8:36:11 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: District13
Please do not change the rules to suit your own agenda.

What did I change?

I merely observed a lack.

You know full well the guys high above SLC can add/change/delete anything previously written at a moments notice.

48 posted on 06/08/2013 8:38:02 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: District13
Homosexual behavior is not tolerated. Period - and you know it.

This is untrue; and can be proven:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52486958-78/mayne-gay-lds-ward.html.csp

49 posted on 06/08/2013 8:39:39 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Revolting cat!
...which is to say at least 30,000 different ways for each of their sects...

Speaking of sex sects...


With the Mormons (to be precise, the members of The Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - based in Salt Lake City) intent on being called “Christians” after so many years of eschewing that word, and despite the fact that there are so many fundamental theological differences between Christianity and Mormonism, I often wonder: 

How do members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints feel about calling the members of its various spin-off sects Latter-Day Saints, Christians, or Mormons? Or about those sects calling themselves Mormons or Latter-Day Saints? (There was an earlier campaign by LDS to have journalism style books use the word “Mormon” to refer only to LDS, and not RLDS, FLDS, or other LDS sects).

For a man who bragged about holding things together, Joseph Smith, Jr. doesn’t appear go have done a good job of it during his lifetime. Wycam Clark’s “Pure Church of Christ” spun off in 1831. This trend continued. There were six LDS sects spawned in the 1830s, eight in the 1840s, two in the 1850s, and seven in the 1860s.

Do those responsible for the “Mormons are Christians” campaign consider these denominations to be Mormons or Latter-Day Saints? Surely many of these denominations are much closer to mainstream LDS than LDS is to Christianity. Many stick to Smith’s teachings and old temple endowment ceremonies.

Short Creek Community
Latter Day Church of Christ
Apostolic United Brethren
Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
Church of the Firstborn of the Fulness [sic] of Times
Church of the Lamb of God
Church of the New Covenant in Christ
Confederate Nations of Israel
Righteous Branch of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
School of the Prophets
Centennial Park
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Kingdom of God
True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days
The Church of the Firstborn and the General Assembly of Heaven

Blackmore/Bountiful Community
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ
Order of Enoch
Aaronic Order
Zion’s Order, Inc.
Perfected Church of Jesus Christ of Immaculate Latter-day Saints
Church of Jesus Christ (Bullaite)
Community of Christ
Church of Jesus Christ (Toneyite)
Independent RLDS / Restoration Branches
Church of Jesus Christ Restored 1830
Church of Christ (Lion of God Ministry/Clarkite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Zion’s Branch)
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Church of Christ (Temple Lot) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Fettingite) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ at Halley’s Bluff (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Restored) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ “With the Elijah Message” (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Hancock) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Burtite) (Hendrickite)
Church of Israel (Hendrickite)
Church of Christ with the Elijah Message (The Assured Way of the Lord) (Hendrickite)
The Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
True Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
Restored Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)
Holy Church of Jesus Christ (Strangite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Drewite) (Strangite)
True Church of Jesus Christ Restored (Strangite)
Pentecostal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Whitmerite)

Or these defunct sects:

Pure Church of Christ (Clarkite)
Independent Church (Hotonite)
Church of Christ (Boothite)
Church of Christ (Parrishite)
Alston Church
Church of Christ (Chubbyite)
Church of Jesus Christ, the Bride, the Lamb’s Wife
Church of Christ (Pageite)
True Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (this one was particularly curious - started by William Law, editor of The Nauvoo Expositor, just one of many sects started in opposition to plural marriage)
The Church of Zion (Godbeite)
United Order Family of Christ
Church of the Potter Christ
Church of the Firstborn (Morrisite)
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Gibsonite)
Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Most High
Church of the Christian Brotherhood
Church of Jesus Christ of the Children of Zion (Rigdonite) Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
Primative Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
Church of Christ (Aaron Smith)
Church of the Messiah (Adamsite)
Church of Christ (Wrightite)
Church of Christ (Whitmerite)
Church of Christ (Brewsterite)
The Bride, the Lamb’s Wife
Congregation of Jehovah’s Presbytery of Zion
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Gladdenite)
Independent Latter Day Saints of Nigeria
Independent Latter Day Saints of Ghana
Apostolic Divine Church of Ghana

Are members of those LDS groups “Mormons”? “Latter Day Saints?” “Christians?”

Do the folks in Salt Lake City have a problem with any of those groups, who believe in the restoration of the original church by Joseph Smith, calling themselves Mormons or Saints?

Most of these divisions in the Latter-Day Saint movement occurred over the issue of polygamy or succession of the Prophet. Sects broke off when Joseph Smith was still alive, and when Brigham Young was named prophet, because they didn’t believe in the practice of plural marriage – either publicly, or in some cases when it was practiced in private and denied in public.

Of course, there was the great split between Rocky Mountain Saints and Prairie Saints, when LDS members couldn’t agree on a successor prophet to Smith, Jr., and the church went to Utah, Missouri, Illinois, Michigan, and Pennsylvania under Brigham Young, Sidney Rigdon (senior member of the First Presidency), James Strang, Lyman Wight, Alpheus Cutler, William Smith, David Whitmer (a BOM witness), or Joseph Smith III (son of Joseph Smith, Jr.). Almost all of these individuals still has multiple sects in existence that date to an 1844 decision about who should be the next President/Prophet of the church.

The Prairie Saints split into sects over the issue of whether Smith practiced polygamy. Rocky Mountain Saints had many, many spinoff sects after the 1890 Manifesto – groups that still practice plural marriage.

======================================================================================================================================================

Thanks to ScoutMaster for all the hard work here!

50 posted on 06/08/2013 8:41:03 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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