I said the same things about Calvinism for almost 40 years. But short of salvation, the absolute best thing that has ever happened to me was coming to understand the Doctrines of Grace. I’m a radically different man.
“For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.” (Romans 9:15-17)
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. (Ephesians 1:3-6)
“You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.” (John 15:16)
“So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened” (Romans 11:5-7)
“But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14)
Based on the authority of Scripture I know that I wasn’t seeking Him and I would never have chosen Him had He not chosen me first because:
“None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” (Romans 3:11-12)
I truly believe your argument isn’t with me, it’s with Scripture.
“I truly believe your argument isn’t with me, it’s with Scripture.”
One thing that is very important to distinguish in a debate about what the Bible teaches is to recognize the difference between what the Bible says and our theological interpretations of what it says. Calvin is not scripture. If scripture can be misused and misinterpreted then certainly the falable writings of beleivers can be as well. Theology is useful because it helps us to learn the facts of scripture. But theology must always be subject to correction or clarification by the actual words of the Bible.
It is a given that we both recognize the authority of the scriptures. If not, then we would need to have an altogether different debate as this one would be futile and meaningless.
I am willing to be corrected with scripture and even reason. Unless all participants in such a debate are willing to do so then it is also futile.
“I said the same things about Calvinism for almost 40 years. But short of salvation, the absolute best thing that has ever happened to me was coming to understand the Doctrines of Grace. I’m a radically different man.”
The doctrine of election according to grace is a very liberating and empowering truth of scripture. Whenever I have debated these issues before I always find myself rewarded by the benefits that come from meditating on God’s grace and the truth of the election of the saints. This I do not dispute.
“Based on the authority of Scripture I know that I wasn’t seeking Him and I would never have chosen Him had He not chosen me first...”
That is exactly correct. It is impossible for anyone to choose Him unless and until He chose us. People do seek God, but only after they have been sought for and found by God. People do choose to serve God, but only after and because of His choosing us.
There is a correct understanding of how we choose and at least one incorrect understanding of how we choose. The idea that God forces someone to choose Him defies the meaning of choice. Because God chose, through no obligation to do so, to offer mercy and grace and salvation to mankind, people have the opportunity or possibility to choose Him. (This is not intended to be a complete explanation of how our choice is enabled.) Consider the elect angels as opposed to those that fell. God chose not to offer a plan of salvation and redemption to the Devil and his angels. Was God obligated to offer salvation and forgiveness? No. Can the Devil choose to repent and seek God? No.
The gift of salvation is not offered to mankind in an arbitrary or capricious fashion. God did not randomly select or elect some to salvation, but rather He offered grace on the basis of a specific plan and pattern of His sovereign will with the specific objective of accomplishing His own good pleasure and the revelation of His glory.
We agree, and Paul agrees, that God is just and true. How can God show mercy while also being just and true? We see from scripture that God delights in mercy. It is as if He is looking for an excuse to show mercy and not punish us even when we deserve punishment. However, He is willing to reveal His glory by His fierce wrath if necessary. Even then, it seems He uses His wrath to cause those who see it to seek His mercy.
“For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. “
God’s mercy is His choice, not an obligation or repaying of a debt.
“So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.”
But people do will and do run. A doctrine that claims people do not will or choose is not aligned with what this passage says. What it says is that God’s mercy is not “of him who wills [i.e. the recipient of mercy].” That is, the person who wills does not get any credit for any meritorious contribution.
“For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.”
Again we see God’s sovereign choice, and the basis of His choice being the accomplishment of His glory. We read in Exodus that God hardened Pharaoh’s heart, but we also read that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. Which is it? The answer is, both. How? God sent His messenger to deliver His word to the ruler. This is what hardened his heart. There are two parts to a person’s heart being hardened: God’s word and an unwilling or unrepentant heart.
You may say that sometimes God’s word results in repentance rather than hardening. That is true. The question is, is this hardening our choice or God’s. The key is to understand that God’s election is based on His foreknowledge. (1 Peter 1:2) So God knew beforehand that Pharaoh would not listen. (Exodus 3:19)
For context consider the alternative. God did something similar to another Pharaoh during the time Joseph was sold as a slave by his brothers and subsequently went to prison because of a false accusation. God warned the king in a dream, and sent Joseph to interpret it. But this king did not harden his heart. The same exact words could be used to describe his response: “for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth” because that is what happened.
Or consider the sovereignty of God in sending Jonah to Nineveh. God knew Jonah would run the opposite direction. He prepared a storm. He prepared a fish. He prepared a vine. He prepared a worm to eat the vine. And, by inference, he prepared the people of Nineveh to respond to the message. Nineveh means “fish town”. They worshipped Dagon, a fish god. Jonah being swallowed and then spit out by a whale probably played a tremendous role in his message being received. This is consistent with what Paul said of Israel’s fall; namely, that through their fall, salvation has come to the Gentiles. God chose Jonah because God knew he would run. God chose Israel because He knew their disobedience would give Him the opportunity to show mercy to the Gentiles, and then to provoke Israel to jealousy so Israel will also be saved as a nation.
I have stated that God’s choosing of us is neither arbitrary nor capricious. He does not choose haphazardly or randomly, but according to a plan. Are there any qualities about us that predisposes His choice? If so, what are they?
“And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.” (1 Timothy 1:12-16)
We see three characteristics of Paul that were the basis of his being chosen by God: first, he was the chiefest of sinners; second, he was ignorant; and third, he was unbeleiving. God chose him as a murdering persecutor of faithful, godly believers like Stephen. God made him an example to show God’s infinite grace and mercy. God also used Paul’s ignorance and unbelief as an excuse, so to speak, to show mercy to him. Now these three characteristics are not meritorious. They are negatives. They are detrimental.
Likewise, consider what Paul said to the Corinthians about who God chooses. “For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence.”(1 Corinthians 1:26-29) Here again we see characteristics of those who God elects for salvation: unwise, weak, poor, despised. These are things that demonstrate that God gets all of the credit for salvation. It is not on our merit.
“For Your name’s sake, O Lord, Pardon my iniquity, for it is great.” (Psalm 25:11) Jonathan Edwards, who strongly emphasizes the importance of election, comments on this passage, “He pleads the greatness of his sin, and not the smallness of it: he enforces his prayer with this consideration, that his sins are very heinous. But how could he make this a plea for pardon? I answer, Because the greater his iniquity was, the more need he had of pardon. It is as much as if he had said, Pardon mine iniquity, for it is so great that I cannot bear the punishment; my sin is so great that I am in necessity of pardon; my case will be exceedingly miserable, unless thou be pleased to pardon me. He makes use of the greatness of his sin, to enforce his plea for pardon, as a man would make use of the greatness of calamity in begging for relief. When a beggar begs for bread, he will plead the greatness of his poverty and necessity. When a man in distress cries for pity, what more suitable plea can be urged than the extremity of his case? And God allows such a plea as this: for he is moved to mercy towards us by nothing in us, but the miserableness of our case. He doth not pity sinners because they are worthy, but because they need his pity ... Herein doth the glory of grace by the redemption of Christ much consist; namely, in its sufficiency for the pardon of the greatest sinners.”
“Then Peter opened his mouth and said: ‘In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.’” (Acts 10:34-35)
God is a righteous judge. He does not show partiality. He does not choose anyone because of meritorious qualities in us. The opposite is true. He does not help those who help themselves. He helps those who cannot help themselves, those who realize they are totally helpless and undeserving of His mercy.
“For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?” (1 Corinthians 4:7) God did not choose many wise, rich, beautiful, strong and powerful. But that is not to say He did not choose any. But He chose them in spite of their good qualities rather than because of them.
“But short of salvation, the absolute best thing that has ever happened to me was coming to understand the Doctrines of Grace.”
That’s good. It is equally important to proclaim a gospel which includes that God commands all men, everywhere to repent.
Does your doctrine lead to the conclusion that some are elected to damnation? I return to my earlier point that whoever goes to hell, does so of their own will and own volition. They must accept 100% of the blame. God did everything possible to provide a way for them to not need to go to hell. For fallen angels, no redemption is available. For fallen people, redemption is available to all who are willing to receive it. This does not represent a good-works-based-salvation. It represents a non-meritorious cooperation with God’s work by ceasing from our own.