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To: albionin
I hear and read this assertion all the time and it is always stated as an axiom. I don’t think it is even a proper question to ask who created the universe because it denies that the universeIt is not clear what you mean by "absolute". I presume that you mean it absolutely exists. It has marked the history of man to ask, "what am I", "does God exist", "what is the meaning of life", "what is our place in the universe", etc. If a lack of curiosity marks ones mind, I suppose your are right, '...existence does not need to be explained or justified".

Existence doesn’t need to be explained or justified, in my opinion. It just is. As far as we know it has always existed and always will. After all the big bang doesn’t say anything about the universe popping into existence from nothing.

You are missing some information. In 1916 Einstein postulated the General Theory of Relativity which propounded an expanding universe. In 1921 Eddington proved this theory, Some time later Hubble proved the universe was expanding by his discovery of the red shift. Now, all 3 of these men were atheist, (Einstein later became a pantheist), but they proved that as they regressed time the expanding universe came to become small, and smaller...until there was singularity,...then nothing. In 1965 Penzias and Wilson (nobel Prize winners) for their discovery of the cosmic bacground radiation which had been postulated had there been a huge explosion of the universe into existence. Hawking referred to this finding as the greatest scientific finding over the past 100 years , if not for all time. In 1989 NASA put up COBE (cosmic background explorer) and photographed the 'thermal ripples' of the origin of the universe. G eorge Smoot, project manager, said these findings were like looking at the fingrprints of God (you can go the NASA's website and look at these photos). A few years later, WMAP was put up and more specifically photographed the findings of COBE. All of these findings were experiments of atheists and all proved a beginning of the universe. Fred Hoyle, atheist, derisively coined the term ' big bang'. Hoyle had popularized the ;steady state theory, but later, in a moment of honest, affirmed the uiverse came to be from a huge explosion.....a 'big bang ".

So contrary to your remark, all of science affirms a moment of creation. Science affirms a moment at which time nothing existed. Remember the moment of creation is marked by the creation of time, matter, energy, and space. Prior to that there was no universe. So the question is asked , "What brought the universe into existence?" It seems science tells us that whatever that was was incredible powerful to have brought the entire universe into existence, timeless (time did not yet exist), non spatial (space did not exist prior to the moment of creation), immaterial (since that First Cause had not yet created matter), In other words, outside of time, space, and matter. and personal, in order to choose to convert nothing into the universe ( create ex nihilo). Those are the characteristics of First Cause...as determined by induction from science.

So, as Leibnez said in the 18 century, "If there is no God, why is there anything at all?"

I won't address the other comments as the Spurs are beating hell out of Miami.

Keep looking under the rocks...you will find truth if you are honest with yourself. Good Luck.

62 posted on 06/11/2013 8:01:24 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter (')
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To: Texas Songwriter

“Consciousness is the singular for which there is no plural.” — Erwin Schrodinger

“Consciousness is the ground of all being.” — Amit Goswami


82 posted on 06/12/2013 1:14:09 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: Texas Songwriter
Science affirms a moment at which time nothing existed.

Nothing with form, anyway. Just energy/consciousness. Just The Thing Itself. Just God.

Which leaves this question: Out of what did God create all that there is?

And the logical answer is: Out of God. There was nothing else out of which it could have been created. So, what does that make us and everything around us? Why, the manifest body of God, of course.

83 posted on 06/12/2013 1:17:49 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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