’ “Vicky” Is not a Christian.’ “
Bishop Vicky Gene Robinson claims to be a Christian.
“Protestants are no more in unity with them”
He is a Protestant. Many protestants are in unity with him. I gave a list. The ECLA, the ECUSA, the PCUSA and the UMC are all in unity with Bishop Vicky Gene Robinson. All of these organizations believe that he is a representative of Christ here on earth.
All of these organizations are protestant.
So tell me. How does one determine who is protestant and who is not? Is Vicky correct or are you correct? This is the question I asked right out of the gate.
What is the essential definition of ‘protestant’?
So far, I see only one and it applies equally to you as to Bishop Gene Robinson - you define yourself as ‘not Catholic’. Through boolean logic.
There is no unity on doctrine. I can point to any doctrine and find someone who is a protestant who disagrees. This renders the concept of Christian ‘unity’ a lie. There is no unity among Protestant Christians.
“So if you can tar all protestants with a faggot non-Christian”
He says he’s a Christian. He has made his profession of faith in public, and his personal testimony. Many, many, many other protestants agree with him and not you.
“Get on to the real issue. We are not called to be Protestant or to be Catholic. We are called to be Christian. You don’t have to be a member of any certain church (as all Christians together form the one true Church).”
So what you are saying is it doesn’t matter if you are a member of Bishop Vicky Gene Robinson’s church. It’s all ok, because he and his members form the true church.
“Do you, JCBrekenridge, believe the Jesus is the Son of God and that He suffered, died, was buried and rose again in payment of your sins, and have you accepted that atonement for your sins. Have you made Jesus YOUR Savior?”
I can no more make him my saviour than I can make my father my father. He IS my saviour and has always been my saviour. I can only acknowledge that which is true. He suffered and died and redeemed all of us from the Cross.
“If so, then we are brothers in Christ no matter what church you attend. If not you need to get saved, hell is too hot and eternity lasts too long to play around with this.”
That was what I was asking. I know I have a somewhat flippant tone - but this is a crucial question.
Now I have one for you - what do you think of the Nicene Creed? This is where your formula originates.
“The bible never once asks what church”
Nonsense. The Bible explicitly states that Christ built his Church to proclaim the gospel to all nations.
“with trivial and unimportant questions”
It’s not trivial. That’s my point. Visible Christian unity is very, very important, even more so given folks like Vicky Gene Robinson.
We need all the faithful Christians who remain true to Christs teachings in unity with one another and not with Vicky.
It’s not about ‘making the world a better place’. This world is doomed. The boat is sinking and we have to swim.
It appears that you have a difficulty in distinguishing between being a Protestant and being a Christian.
The two are not synonymous.
One can be a Protestant and not be a Christian.
One can be a Christian and not a Protestant.
If you really understood what made one a Christian, you’d know that.
All of these organizations are protestant.
I never said he wasn't protestant. I said he wasn't Christian. The words have two separate meanings.
Those organizations you listed are also not Christian organizations. They have turned away from Christ and embraced abomination. How can someone claim to be a Christ follower (Christian) and embrace something that Christ calls abomination? They can't!
So tell me. How does one determine who is protestant and who is not?
It's a question I've never considered as it is irrelevant. Who cares what they are protesting or whether they are protesting anything at all. What is important is whether or not they are Christian.
I do not generally refer to myself as a protestant. And I seldom use the term at all. Is someone a Christian or not. That is the only important question.
Is Vicky correct or are you correct? This is the question I asked right out of the gate.
And I answered it. Vicky is not a Christian and I am. So I guess that makes me correct (as Christ is correct and I follow Him)
What is the essential definition of ‘protestant’?
I don't know if there is one. And if there is one, it is still irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the state of a person's soul in relation to Christ. Is someone a Christian (Christ follower) or is he not?
So far, I see only one and it applies equally to you as to Bishop Gene Robinson - you define yourself as ‘not Catholic’. Through boolean logic.
No, you did. You seem to see the world as Catholic vs Protestant. I see it as Christian vs non-Christian.
I was raised Catholic. Baptized, first communion, altar boy, confirmed etc. Up until college I was a faithful mass every Sunday confession every Saturday Catholic. But I wasn't a Christian at that time. I was going through the motions of what people told me I was supposed to do. But God was not real to me.
When I was 26 I attended a baptist church at the invite of a girl I was interested in. It really was the first time I heard the gospel preached that made sense to me. (As a bit of background I grew up in Milwaukee during the Rembert Weakland years. I've come to realize that even though he was the archbishop there, he was neither Catholic nor Christian)
For Christmas she gave me a bible. "Hmmm" I thought, "what do you do with a book? You read it". So I did. And God revealed Himself to me through His word. I got saved (accepted the reality of Christ and His atoning sacrifice for me, and made Him Lord of my life) that April.
Please note that I've talked to many Catholics before and after that and have come to know that many of them are Christians (saved) and that many of them are not. Being Catholic no more makes you a Christian than living in a garage makes you an automobile
There is no unity on doctrine. I can point to any doctrine and find someone who is a protestant who disagrees. This renders the concept of Christian ‘unity’ a lie. There is no unity among Protestant Christians.
Apparently the same happens in Roman Catholicism. Lots of American Catholics on birth control, etc.
He says he’s a Christian. He has made his profession of faith in public, and his personal testimony. Many, many, many other protestants agree with him and not you.
True they agree with him. But they disagree with God. God's word clearly calls what vicky endorses and promotes, abomination. You can't be following Christ if you love what He hates and hate what He loves. It's pretty simple really. If our testimony does not line up with our actions then our testimony is false.
So what you are saying is it doesn’t matter if you are a member of Bishop Vicky Gene Robinson’s church. It’s all ok, because he and his members form the true church.
I am saying that it doesn't matter what church you belong to, or if you belong to any church at all. What matters, indeed, the only thing that matters, is if you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. If you have such a relationship then the Holy Spirit (who is given to all believers) will lead you away from anti-Christian "churches" such as vicky's.
I can no more make him my saviour than I can make my father my father. He IS my saviour and has always been my saviour. I can only acknowledge that which is true. He suffered and died and redeemed all of us from the Cross.
If someone gives you a gift, walks up to you and lays it on the ground in front of you and says "Here, this is for you", is it yours? No it isn't. It's not yours until you accept it and take it.
Jesus died on the cross for all of us. But God is a gentleman. He will not force us into heaven. He gives us the gift of his Son but it's up to us to accept that gift and take it. By his death and resurrection Jesus is THE Savior. But not until I accept that gift is He MY Savior
Now I have one for you - what do you think of the Nicene Creed? This is where your formula originates.
What is it? I don't ever recall seeing it in the bible (unless it's called something else there. Book, chapter and verse?)
OK. I had some time and googled it. It seems that I can support almost every clause with scripture
“The bible never once asks what church”
Nonsense. The Bible explicitly states that Christ built his Church to proclaim the gospel to all nations.
Exactly. Not the Roman Catholic church. Not the Eastern Orthodox church, not the Assemblies of God church, not the Lutheran Church. etc. etc. etc. Just the Church, the body of ALL believers in Jesus. “with trivial and unimportant questions”
It’s not trivial. That’s my point. Visible Christian unity is very, very important, even more so given folks like Vicky Gene Robinson.
Again, difference of perspective. All Christians are in unity. The question is whether one is a Christian or not. We the church have been very lax in following the commands of 1 Cor 5:1-13. We've let sin take root in the church and have not pulled it up and expelled those who endorse it. (For example, how was Ted Kennedy able to claim being a Catholic after muredering Mary Jo and not repenting, being a drunk, being pro-abortion etc etc etc. He should have been cast out years before he died.)
We need all the faithful Christians who remain true to Christs teachings in unity with one another and not with Vicky.
This is self-evident. If they are Christian they are in unity with Christ's teachings. If someone is not following Christ (vicky for example) they are not in unity with those who are following Christ.
It’s not about ‘making the world a better place’. This world is doomed. The boat is sinking and we have to swim.
Yes the boat is sinking. we are in the end times, but we have a life preserver and can share that life preserver with as many as will accept it. So if we share the gospel and someone gets saved because of (or even in spite of) our efforts, then we have made the world a better place.