Posted on 07/04/2013 8:54:37 AM PDT by Colofornian
Since this was published, I discovered the online link for Account #3: Not Ashamed of the Gospel—Thirty Years Progress in the Mountains—The Gospel Unchangeable—Joseph Inspired—President Young's Work—Work of the Twelve—Labors in St. George Temple—Gathering of the Spirits of the Dead Discourse by Elder Wilford Woodruff, delivered in the New Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, Sunday Afternoon, September 16, 1877, transcribed by Geo. F. Gibbs on pp223-230 of volume 19 of the Journal of Discourses.
Here is a larger excerpt from this Lds "prophet" -- from Vol. 19, 1877:
...it was a duty that the God of heaven required of him to open up the Gospel to those in the spirit world who had not received it. And there is no greater duty resting upon the Latter-day Saints today than that of building Temples, and officiating therein for the dead as well as the living...We have labored in the St. George Temple since January, and we have done all we could there; and the Lord has stirred up our minds, and many things have been revealed to us concerning the dead. President Young has said to us, and it is verily so, if the dead could they would speak in language loud as ten thousand thunders, calling upon the servants of God to rise up and build Temples, magnify their calling and redeem their dead. This doubtless sounds strange to those present who believe not the faith and doctrine of the Latter-day Saints; but when we get to the spirit world we will find out that all that God has revealed is true. We will find, too, that everything there is reality, and that God has a body, parts and passions, and the erroneous ideas that exist now with regard to him will have passed away. I feel to say little else to the Latter-day Saints wherever and whenever I have the opportunity of speaking to them, than to call upon them to build these Temples now under way, to hurry them up to completion. THE DEAD WILL BE AFTER YOU, THEY WILL SEEK AFTER YOU AS THEY HAVE AFTER US IN ST. GEORGE. THEY CALLED UPON US...two weeks before I left St. George, the spirits of the dead gathered around me, wanting to know why we did not redeem them. Said they, "You have had the use of the Endowment House for a number of years, and yet nothing has ever been done for us. We laid the foundation of the government you now enjoy, and we never apostatized from it, but we remained true to it and were faithful to God." These were the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and they waited on me for two days and two nights. I thought it very singular, that notwithstanding so much work had been done, and yet nothing had been done for them. The thought never entered my heart, from the fact, I suppose, that heretofore our minds were reaching after our more immediate friends and relatives. I straightway went into the baptismal font and called upon brother McCallister to baptize me for the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and fifty other eminent men, making one hundred in all, including John Wesley, Columbus, and others; I then baptized him for every President of the United States, except three; and when their cause is just, somebody will do the work for them. I have felt to rejoice exceedingly in this work of redeeming the dead...
On June 23, Lds had this special worldwide broadcast to its wards about its new missionary emphasis.
In this two-hour presentation, a pre-recorded clip
-- an interview with a long-time Mormon convert --
--Neill F. Marriott (she converted pre-marriage, pre-11 children after graduating from Southern Methodist University) was conducted...
[For who she is, you can see: General Auxiliaries: Sister Neill F. Marriott]...
Anyway, Mrs. Marriott talked about her 11 children as also being "choice spirits"...
What does the term "choice spirits" mean in Mormon culture...
That "special spirits" who existed in the alleged "pre-existence" came down from another planet and inhabited particular bodies.
More than 29,000 church members are expected to report in coming months, bringing the worldwide total of missionaries proselytizing and performing community service to an all-time high of 85,000 by this fall, new church estimates show.
That's 38 percent more than at any other time in history.
At least one church analyst predicts the total could swell to more than 100,000 next year before it levels out somewhat in the next several years. That would be nearly double the number of missionaries the church had during most of the 2000s.
BUT....FR mormons whine and complain about the presence of a few dozen FReepers who bring the truth about mormonism to light.
Church leaders “daily reference” this??? Your credibility is, once again, exposed as near-zero.
I am in my 50’s and have been actively involved in the LDS church for a lifetime, living in multiple states, and I have never, ever heard a church leader reference this, even once.
My impression is that you seem to fall into the category of those who lie to deceive because they suppose that others are lying to deceive.
....obviously "choice spirits" is defined by mormons to point out the superiority of mormonism over all Christian religions and the "speshulness" of its members.
Anyone want to feel what ‘perfumed emptiness’ feels like, just visit a Mormon church.
Its a VERY uneasy feeling.
EXACT same feeling when I visited the Masonic Temple in Alexandria.
Something very ‘false’ about those two places.
An Open Letter to Mormons who are
sincere and serious about their faith...(but slightly troubled and embarrassed by poststhat raise problems with mormon teachings andbeliefs that cannot be answered)If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums
you will notice a pattern. There’s a group of
Christians who spend a great deal of time posting
from Official Mormon Sources - both the Book of
Mormon as well as Mormon Prophets and Church
materials - real quotes from real mormon materials.You will also notice that many of these Christians
are former Mormons who left Mormonism and came to
know the Biblical Jesus Christ and His Gospel of Grace- apart from the treadmill of human works.They have a passion to share what they learned withother Mormons.Of course, they are attacked regularly by a very,
small group of Mormons on FR who have zeal, but no real
knowledge beyond what the Mormon Church has told
them.Why can't these so-called "defenders" provide any:… Objective Facts
… Objective Evidence
… Or Logical supportAnything OBJECTIVE that any reasonable person would
see and agree that it lends support the claims of
Mormonism.God is a God of real history. He wove the strands ofhuman DNA, His Book, the Bible is rooted and groundedin real places on real maps and is verified througharcheology, geography, history and genetics.If Mormonism is true, why is it based only on subjective
feelings and why doesn't it have the same kind of objective
support the Bible does?Has God changed?Is He no longer in control of the world?If they could support the claims of Mormonism with facts,
you know they would. But it never happens. I've even heardthese "defenders" say God hid all evidence to make ourfaith greater. Has the God of the universe now becomethe Cosmic Easter Bunny? Or is He unchangeable, like theBible teaches?*** Why would God provide every kind of objective support
for the Bible's rich history and none for the Book of
Mormon? ***These "defenders" post links over and over again that
“address” things yet never provide an answer that is
buttressed by the ring of truth, echoed by history,
archeology, genetics, geography, etc.You deserve more than feelings and non-answers.After reading both sides on this thread and others,
you may very well be wondering about what you were
taught when you joined the LDS church. You also may
be wondering how to resolve the tension of a faiththat is based entirely on subjective claims, yetwants to claim the same God who has commanded youto love Him with "all your mind."You are not alone in this journey.Many have approached us who are Christians asking whereto find out more and some, even, to ask how to come toknow the Biblical Christ and some even how to gracefullyleave Mormonism and start a new life with Christ.Many here have already set out to finally and joyfully know
the true God and Savior. They understand the terrible choice
of being totally sincere about your faith, but increasingly
concerned that it isn't everything you once believed and hoped for.
After coming to know the truth, they are on a path that gives them
the rest God promised to His children and the certainty of His
ultimate plan for them.Here are some links to get you started in your quest to know
the Biblical Christ:In the end though, links may raise more questions and concernsand sometimes it helps to have someone who has already wrestledwith all these issues already.I invite you to private FReep-mail any of the Christians
on this thread to ask questions about the concerns you have.We always do our best to directly answer your questions with
facts, evidence and logical support.Take a step. I also challenge you to not only pray about these issues,but go the one step farther and examine them to see if they aretrue quotes, true teachings of the LDS church. Are you intellectuallyhonest enough to do this, or are you satisfied with just feelingsand a lack of facts, evidence and logic? If you are not willing toexamine your faith, is it because of what you might learn? Or are youindeed intellectually lazy?What do you have to lose at this point? And you have much togain.If something is true, it can withstand any question, no matterhow tough. If it is false, it is better to know while your lifeis in front of you.There is peace and rest waiting for you today. Take a step tofind it now.All the Best,
ampu
I quit taking Mormonism seriously after that.
LDS Temple Haunted ...
According to the noted historians Hubert Bancroft and Fawn Brodie, the Saints maintain that their 1836 dedication of the Kirtland, Ohio Mormon Temple featured appearances by "Jesus Christ, Moses, Elijah, Elias, and numerous angels; speaking and singing in tongues, often with translations; prophesying; foot washing; and other spiritual experiences." (See also D&C Sec. 110)
Mrs. Brodie went on to point out that the Saints had made and consumed a large amount of home brew in honor of the occasion, causing a number of them to be bombed out of their skulls.
It has also been well established that LDS leadership has from time to time lived by a different set of rules than those advocated in the Word of Wisdom. For example, Joseph Smith frequented Mossier's Tavern in Nauvoo, before opening a saloon in his mansion there. According to LDS President John Taylor, Joseph also polished off a bottle of wine before he was killed in a blotched jail break. The Tanners have proven that Brigham Young owned a distillery in Utah.
You don't suppose these facts may, in some part, help explain the sightings of ghosts in the St. George Temple?
Just asking ...
I have heard it plenty of times, it is one of the favorite ‘temple stories’. It has often been referenced in conference talks as well as LDS church history manual (official).
Ezra Taft Benson, “The Faith of our Founding Fathers,” 21 said this...
Shortly after Spencer W. Kimball became president of the Church, we met together in one of out weekly meetings. We spoke of the sacred records that are in the vaults of the various temples of the Church. As I was soon to fill a conference assignment to St. George, President Kimball asked if I would go into the vault at the temple and check the early records. In so doing, I realized the fulfillment of a dream I had had ever since learning of the visit of the Founding Fathers to this sacred place. I saw with my own eyes the records of the work that was done for the Founding Fathers of this great nation, beginning with George Washington. I was deeply moved on that occasion to realize that these great men returned to this promised land by permission of the Lord and had their ordinance work done for them. If they had not been faithful men, if they had not been God-fearing men, would they have come to the elders of Israel to seek their temple blessings? I think not. The Lord raised them up, sanctioned their work, and proclaimed them “wise men.” Moreover, a president of the Church declared them to be the “best spirits the God of heaven could find on the face of the earth,” and testified that they were “choice spirits” and “inspired of the Lord.”
“And there in the St. George temple I saw what I had always hoped and prayed that someday
I would see. Ever since I returned as a humble mi
ssionary and first learned that the Founding
Fathers had appeared in that temple, I wanted to
see the record. And I saw the record . They did
appear to Wilford Woodruff twice and asked why
the work hadn’t been done for them. They had
founded this country and the Constitution of this la
nd, and they had been true to those principles
....
In the archives of the temple, I saw in a book, in bold handwriting names of the Founding
Fathers and others, including Columbus and other
great Americans, for whom the work had been
done in the house of the Lord... .All these appeared
to Wilford Woodruff when he was President
of the St. George Temple. President George Wash
ington was ordained a High Priest at that time.
You will also be interested to know that accord
ing to Wilford Woodruff’s journal, John Wesley,
Benjamin Franklin, and Christopher Columbus we
re also ordained High Priests at the time.”
(TEACHINGS OF EZRA TAFT BENSON
p. 603-4.)
I can give you other references as well.
My impression is that you seem to fall into the category of those who lie to deceive because they they need to make the LDS church seem ‘normal’.
More sources from current LDS manuals - for someone with the screename ‘justthetruth’ you haven’t been telling it.
https://www.lds.org/search?lang=eng&collection=manuals&query=signers&x=0&y=0
We don't call it a living history museum for no reason.
LOL, have to lock up the Vodka from the ghosts.
The one time I visited a Mormon church was during a family trip to Salt Lake City, when we took a tour of Temple Square and listened to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. The people were lovely, and we couldn't have had a better time.
The LDS culture sees the division between the living and the dead as a thin and two-way passable veil. It is commonplace for dead relatives to visit and say things to the living(necromancy, talking to dead people, which scripture forbids) in the LDS world.
Cemeteries in the LDS culture are active places, where the living relatives will leave gifts, leave little solar lights and decorations, leave candles, even leave treats, in the thinking that it will please their relatives.
The cemetery, in fact, is one of the most telling places to indicate that indeed, Mormonism is paganism with a Christian veneer.
We watch it every day, as we live in a 90% LDS community, and our front door has faced the cemetery across the street for the last 23 years.
I am still waiting for anything to remotely support the “daily reference” assertion. Crickets chirping on that one?
Also, when in history have devoted followers of God and their beliefs been considered “normal” by the prevailing religious “orthodoxy” of the world in their day?
Check your reading skills.
#1...The "daily reference" was to Woodruff himself...not this "temple experience" he had with "the dead."
#2...I lumped grassroots Mormons AND church leaders TOGETHER...didn't "single them out" like you did.
#3...as an IDENTITY GROUP, yes, Mormons DAILY reference (at least indirectly) Woodruff.
Why? How? Because some Mormon somewhere...daily...is talking about the polygamy manifesto of 1890 -- issued by Woodruff. The context is usually some Mormon somewhere -- perhaps some Mormon missionary -- saying that "No, we don't engage in polygamy, anymore...back in 1890...President Woodruff..."
Well....
The Church Fathers and some modern Christian writers have debated the theological issues raised by this text. The story of King Saul and the Witch of Endor would appear at first sight to affirm that it is possible for humans to summon the spirits of the dead by magic.
Medieval glosses to the Bible suggested that what the witch actually summoned was not the ghost of Samuel, but a demon taking his shape or an illusion crafted by the witch.[9] Martin Luther, who believed that the dead were unconscious, read that it was "the Devil's ghost", whereas John Calvin, who did believe in the immortal soul, read that "it was not the real Samuel, but a spectre."[10]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_of_Endor
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