Lds Temple Haunted? Did Declaration of Independence signers appear as ghosts to leader? [Vanity]

Free Republic [Vanity] ^ | July 1, 2011 | Colofornian

[Jean S]

BUT....FR mormons whine and complain about the presence of a few dozen FReepers who bring the truth about mormonism to light.

Many non-Mormons complain too.

[Elsie]

BUT....FR mormons whine and complain about the presence of a few dozen FReepers who bring the truth about mormonism to light.

That is because we are WAY more effective!

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“I am in my 50’s and have been actively involved in the LDS church for a lifetime, living in multiple states, and I have never, ever heard a church leader reference this, even once.”

---

I’ve actively involved myself with LDS for just a year or two and have heard it many times.

[Elsie]

Your credibility is, once again, exposed as near-zero.

Then listen to one whose credibility is above question:

"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

[Elsie]

My impression is that you seem to fall into the category of those who lie to deceive because they suppose that others are lying to deceive.

Deceptive lies are troubling all right...

---

The following are the LYING images that MORMONism has produced, KNOWING that they represent something FALSE!!

 

 

   

[Colofornian]

LDS Temple Haunted ... According to the noted historians Hubert Bancroft and Fawn Brodie, the Saints maintain that their 1836 dedication of the Kirtland, Ohio Mormon Temple featured appearances by "Jesus Christ, Moses, Elijah, Elias, and numerous angels; speaking and singing in tongues, often with translations; prophesying; foot washing; and other spiritual experiences." (See also D&C Sec. 110) Mrs. Brodie went on to point out that the Saints had made and consumed a large amount of home brew in honor of the occasion, causing a number of them to be bombed out of their skulls.

1836: The Haunting of Kirtland Temple:
Temple dedications were often the scenes of such mysterious occurrences. Joseph Smith wrote of "many strange visions" that were seen when the first temple was dedicated at Kirkland, Ohio on 27 March 1836. It was noted that men would run about "under the influence," while others would "speak in a muttering, unnatural voice and their bodies [would] be distorted...."(49) 49. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, 1 April 1842, page 747. Source:

GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism

Many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen

"Soon after the Gospel was established in Kirtland...many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen, and wild, enthusiastic notions were entertained; men ran out doors under the influence of this spirit, and some of them got upon the stumps of trees and shouted, and all kinds of extravagances were entered into by them; one man pursued a ball that he said he saw flying in the air, until he came to a precipice, when he jumped into the top of a tree, which saved his life; and many ridiculous things were entered into... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 213-214)

What kinds of "ridiculous things?"

The records of early Mormonism are replete with accounts of activity from the spirit world. According to John Whitmer, who was the official Church Historian in Joseph Smith's time, some converts to the new religion would "act like an Indian in the act of scalping," or would "slide or scoot on the floor with the rapidity of a serpent...."(46) During the ordination ceremony of Harvey Whitlock as a high priest in 1831, he was seen to have "turned as black as Lyman was white," his fingers "were set like claws," and, unable to speak, he went about the room with eyes "as the shape of oval Os...."(47) On another occasion, one man, who weighed over 200 pounds, was thrown through the air by an unseen force, and another "began screaming like a panther...."(48) 46. John Whitmer, John Whitmer's History (Salt Lake City, Utah: Modern Microfilm Company, n.d.), Chapter Six. 47. Max H. Parkin, Conflict at Kirtland: A Study of the Nature and Causes of External and Internal Conflict of the Mormons in Ohio Between 1830 and 1838 (Salt Lake City: Max Parkin, 1966), pages 79-80. 48. Parkin, ibid. Source:

GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism

Now did these "spirits" leave Mormons alone after this jumpstart? Not on your life:

"Soon after the Gospel was established in Kirtland...many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen, and wild, enthusiastic notions were entertained; men ran out doors under the influence of this spirit, and some of them got upon the stumps of trees and shouted, and all kinds of extravagances were entered into by them; one man pursued a ball that he said he saw flying in the air, until he came to a precipice, when he jumped into the top of a tree, which saved his life; and many ridiculous things were entered into... (Joseph Smith pp. 213-214)

[Elsie]

If, however, all you wish to read are faithbuilding items; then you may peruse our lamented PD's list of Approved Mormon Sources:

I miss ol' PD!

HE was about useless when it came to defending his faith; but at LEAST he had a bunch of links that showed interested people where to find the MILK of MORMONism...

---

Here; in his memory; is The LIST:

http://www.lds.org

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com

[Elsie]

Ghosts... ...or the guests?

[Elsie]

Didn’t get very deep into theology; did ya...

[Colofornian]

I am still waiting for anything to remotely support the “daily reference” assertion. Crickets chirping on that one?

So, aside from your lack of basic reading skills...allow me to also explain why I even pointed out that Mormons (both leaders and grassroots Mormons TOGETHER) DAILY REFERENCE Wilford Woodruff himself -- even when they do so indirectly?

I mentioned it to show that Mormons don't deem Wilford Woodruff as simply some obscure NOBODY from yesteryear.

IOW, Mormons today -- BOTH leaders AND grassroots Mormons -- cite Woodruff authoritatively as a SOMEBODY...a Mormon AUTHORITY who exercised the sheer power to change the entire Mormon culture from institutional polygamy to institutional monogamy.

[Elsie]

It is too bad, that on this day of celebration of the founding of our Country; True Blue, TR carrying members of Mormonism are NOT eating any fine BBQd ribs from the backyard grill.

---

 

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 89

 

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.

 

1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.

 

  1 A ^aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the ^aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and ^bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

  3 Given for a principle with ^apromise, adapted to the capacity of the ^bweak and the weakest of all ^csaints, who are or can be called saints.

  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of ^aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of ^bconspiring men in the last days, I have ^cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

  5 That inasmuch as any man ^adrinketh ^bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, ^apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

  7 And, again, ^astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

  8 And again, tobacco is not for the ^abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome ^aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with ^aprudence and ^bthanksgiving.

  12 Yea, ^aflesh also of ^bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used ^csparingly;

  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be ^aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or ^bfamine.

  14 All ^agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

  15 And ^athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

  16 All grain is good for the ^afood of man; as also the ^bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ^ashall receive ^bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;

  19 And shall ^afind ^bwisdom and great ^ctreasures of ^dknowledge, even hidden treasures;

  20 And shall ^arun and not be ^bweary, and shall walk and not faint.

  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the ^adestroying angel shall ^bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

---

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

[Colofornian]

LOL, have to lock up the Vodka from the ghosts.

Yeah. You just never know about those spirits.

(I've heard it said they like to HANGover AROUND)

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“I can’t remember. It’s been a lifetime since I read it.). Then, further on, it say Isaias appears, and everyone is amazed, except that Isaias is the greek form of Isaiah,”

---

You know, this is actually a mistake I’ve seen Mormons make in a debate. A Mormon was making some absurd claim (I’ve forgotten the details), and during the process got Isaiah and Esaias confused as two different people. When I pointed out that Esaias is just Isaiah, he wouldn’t believe me. I even showed him proof, and he would not believe me that Isaiah and Esaias were actually the same person. I thought he was just illiterate in the Bible, being a Mormon, but now you make me think that they’re probably taught that there is a Prophet named Isaiah and a Prophet named Esaias who are separate people.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Mormonism is based on feelings, maintained by distortions of history, Scripture and fact, propped up by rituals from Masonism that do not appear in mormonic verses, coerced by fear and ended when The Biblical Lord Jesus Christ intervenes to open the eyes of those who seek truth.

Thank God HE is Faithful!

[Elsie]

IOW, Mormons today -- BOTH leaders AND grassroots Mormons -- cite Woodruff authoritatively as a SOMEBODY...a Mormon AUTHORITY who exercised the sheer power to change the entire Mormon culture from institutional polygamy to institutional monogamy.

So far so good; until a Living Prophet® decides to countermand something that WW taught or believed.

[Utah Binger]

Ghosts... ...or the guests?

Management...and the lapsed Mormons.

[Colofornian]

Me: ...a Mormon AUTHORITY who exercised the sheer power to change the entire Mormon culture from institutional polygamy to institutional monogamy.

So far so good; until a Living Prophet® decides to countermand something that WW taught or believed. [Elsie]

True...As Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson said...a "living prophet" trumps the dead ones...hence...Lds show their true colors not only to readily dismissing the Bible by whim of a current "prophet" -- but even their own add-on "scriptures."

That's why when BYU prof - author Bob Millet defines the Lds standard works as a "standard" to measure all doctrine...that's all a bunch of crock & hooey...

Why? Exactly because of what Elz mentions here: The "standard" becomes, in Mormonism, ANYTHING -- and I mean ANYTHING that the current "living Mormon 'prophet'" declares!

Hence...Elz' comment reminds me of a 1960s survey of Mormons about how many would jump back into polygamy if the Mormon "prophet" told them to do it:

"Another survey taken in the 1960s found that not only do contemporary church members overwhelmingly disapprove of polygamy but only two in five said they would enter the principle if commanded by the prophets." [B. Carmon Hardy, Solemn Covenant, University of Illinois Press, p. 339, citing survey published in 1963 by John R. Christiansen, "Contemporary Mormons' Attitudes Toward Polygamous Practices," Journal of Marriage and Family 25 (May 1963): pp. 167-170)].

Now I don't know about you -- but 40% who said "they would enter the principle if commanded by the prophets" in 1963 is pretty high!

Imagine that, everybody!

2 of 5 of your Mormon neighbors would expand their bedrooms in their homes come the edict from the Mormon "prophet"...

Of the other 3 of 5 of your Mormon neighbors, 2 of them are probably "jack Mormons" and don't pay attention much to what the "living prophet" says, anymore...

The other 20% are households ruled by a wife who would put a "No Trespassing" sign on their bedroom door (or additional husbandly bedroom doors in their home)

[Colofornian]

You know, this is actually a mistake I’ve seen Mormons make in a debate. A Mormon was making some absurd claim (I’ve forgotten the details), and during the process got Isaiah and Esaias confused as two different people. When I pointed out that Esaias is just Isaiah, he wouldn’t believe me. I even showed him proof, and he would not believe me that Isaiah and Esaias were actually the same person. I thought he was just illiterate in the Bible, being a Mormon, but now you make me think that they’re probably taught that there is a Prophet named Isaiah and a Prophet named Esaias who are separate people.

Well I know that Joseph Smith didn't know that "Esias" is simply a Greek form of "Elijah" -- and therefore in Doctrine & Covenants mistakenly treats them as two different people.

[Colofornian]

....obviously "choice spirits" is defined by mormons to point out the superiority of mormonism over all Christian religions and the "speshulness" of its members.

I read a book by a former Lds "prophet" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., Religious Truths Defined ... 1959). On page 79, he claims that "pre-mortal spirits are graded."

Hence Mormon leaders try to convey that...
...some pre-existence existed (tho we can't remember it);
...some such spirits there were more "valiant" than others;
...these spirits were "graded";
...and then you get heads of Mormon women's auxiliaries (Mrs. Neill Marriott) -- promoted by the very top etchelon of SLC via its worldwide June 23 broadcast...that "choice" spirits existed in this pre-existence...
...and, of course, these best spirits "landed" in Mormondom on earth.

It's a "neat circle" they've invented that reinforces itself.

It conveys: "Hey, we're great because some spirits were greater in the pre-existence. And the Mormon god of the Church of Mormon picked out those greater spirits to be in Mormon families. And that's just the way it is. (Even tho we can't remember ANY of it)"

Mormon elitism at its finest!

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“Well I know that Joseph Smith didn’t know that “Esias” is simply a Greek form of “Elijah” — and therefore in Doctrine & Covenants mistakenly treats them as two different people.”

---

Now that you mention it, I remember the details now. His mistake (the Mormon I mentioned) wasn’t with Esaias and Isaiah, though I can see him making the same mistake since that’s how it’s spelled in the New Testament (and Smith’s way of doing theology seemed to be rather random). It was with Elias and Elijah. If I remember correctly, his argument was that Joseph Smith was Elijah all along, who was to come before the coming of Jesus Christ. When I replied that this was fulfilled by John the Baptist. He told me that John the Baptist was Elias, a different person. What a poor fellow! But it was an argument I only ever heard once, after many many debates with LDS.