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To: steve8714; All

Unless I’m seriously misunderstanding something—which, as a relatively new Catholic convert, is definitely possible!—sainthood does not mean that the Church has stated that the saint was perfect in his lifetime. Sainthood means there is now proof that the saint is in heaven, out of purgatory, and therefore cleansed of all earthly sin, which we all have.

It’s as well to bear in mind that while we may think this was a fast trip to sainthood, and we may view St John Paul’s errors on this earth as very serious, the perspective is different in heaven, where time is not as we experience it. Time as we understand it is limited to the universe, but heaven is outside of the universe and things must be different there. By our reckoning a person may have spent a million years in purgation or five minutes, but it is sufficient by God’s judgement.

The fact is that people prayed to St John Paul for miraculous healings and did receive them, so it’s evident that he was in a position sufficiently close to the Lord to appeal to Him on behalf of sufferers on earth, so in the absence of any earthly medical explanation, we can conclude he’s in heaven and close to the Lord.

Personally, I always thought that his handling, or lack of handling, of the problems of the priesthood was more due to a type of naivete about psychology and a lack of comprehension of the scale of this evil, than any deceptiveness. I could be completely wrong, of course. But I’ve met so many good, good people, priests and lay Catholics alike, who thought that when a child molester gets on his knees before his bishop and sobs and says he hates himself and will never ever ever do it again, that they meant it. They are tremendously persuasive and manipulative, and when you witness their sobs, their tears, their snot, their real agony, you’d have to have a heart of stone to disbelieve them. (Ask me how I know. No, wait. Don’t ask.) That heart of stone is not easily created in religious people. Certainly not in a man like Karol Wojtyla.

Please forgive me if I write out of turn. Perhaps as a newbie I have no right to opine.


7 posted on 07/05/2013 7:46:12 AM PDT by ottbmare (The OTTB Mare--now a Marine Mom)
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To: ottbmare
sainthood does not mean that the Church has stated that the saint was perfect in his lifetime.

Only one was ever perfect - Jesus.
8 posted on 07/05/2013 8:03:36 AM PDT by Old Yeller (Goodbye America. Glad the majority of my years were spent during the good days.)
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To: ottbmare
Congratulations on your entrance into the Catholic Church and welcome!

IMHO, you possess much wisdom and understanding, as a Catholic and FReeper. Thanks for your post.

As you highlight, the saints have not been perfect in their lifetime. They are fully human, and not of an immaculate conception.

Some of the negative comments toward Blessed Pope John Paul II reminds me of this scene from the Passion of the Christ ...“Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

And soon-to-be-Saint Pope John Paul II was not 'caught in adultery'.

9 posted on 07/05/2013 8:15:25 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: ottbmare

Welcome to the Church!


11 posted on 07/05/2013 8:19:06 AM PDT by karnage
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To: ottbmare

You have a perfect right to comment, don’t ever apologize for holding an opinion around here.
If memory serves, the requirement used to be three miracles, plus many worthy saints have not been pushed this fast.
I think he trusted the bishops to do their jobs, which didn’t often happen.


13 posted on 07/05/2013 9:10:48 AM PDT by steve8714 (Any homosexual man can marry any woman he wants. Just like the President.)
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