Francis: Reformer or Revolutionary?

Standing on my head ^ | 7-12-2013 | Fr. Dwight Longenecker

[Tax-chick]

Neither.

[ClaytonP]

He kind of strikes me as a throwback to the 70s era church which Benedict and to some extent JP2 tried to move away from

[Alex Murphy]

This “hermeneutic of revolution” was pioneered at the Protestant Reformation–which is properly called the Protestant Revolution....The key mark of revolution (as opposed to legitimate reform) is that the revolutionary is not only eager to bring about a new order. He must first destroy the old. Revolution is iconoclastic. The old must be destroyed in order for the new to be established. This is why we can characterize most of the Protestant Reformation as revolution rather than reform. The Protestants were not content to simply reform the medieval Catholic Church. They had to destroy the whole thing and start again.

Generalize much?

[vladimir998]

No generalization at all.

Protestants destroyed medieval Catholic books, libraries, chapels, chantries, colleges, churches, artworks, monasteries, convents, sysems, structures, canon law, pilgrimage sites, etc.

[marsh2]

This Pope reminds me of the movie “Shoes of the Fisherman” and the humility expressed by giving away all the trappings of richness.

[MDLION]

It’s funny you should mention “Shoes of the Fisherman”. I’ve long had a tape of that but have never watched it. I’ve been planning on watching it soon. The way Anthony Quinn appears as the Pope in that movie does sort of remind me of Pope Francis.

[MDLION]

Francis is an interesting mix. Maybe he seem like a throwback to the 70s on poverty issues, but his statements against same-sex marriage in Argentina were quite strong. He even went out in the popemobile and met a Pro-Life march in Italy. I think he’s going to make ideological conservatives and ideological liberals become Catholic before ideological.

[A.A. Cunningham]

Generalize much?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Longenecker is a graduate of Bob Jones University, studied theology at Oxford and served as an Anglican priest prior to converting to Catholicism. He's forgotten more about history than you'll ever dream of knowing.

[GeronL]

or placeholder?

[ArrogantBustard]

The other day a fellow priest condemned our plans for a traditional style church saying that “It is pre-Vatican II.

Many years ago, I observed (to a bunch of "catholic" radicals) that the Bible is "pre-Conciliar". They didn't like that much. Today's radicals might well agree with me ... and then suggest chucking it out.

[NYer]

Catholic ping!

[Mrs. Don-o]

" The Protestants were not content to simply reform the medieval Catholic Church. They had to destroy the whole thing and start again....Generalize much?"

Forgive him. He's probably had his judgment impaired by visiting the FR Religion Forum.

[Alex Murphy]

Forgive him. He's probably had his judgment impaired by visiting the FR Religion Forum.

What does that say about the judgment of those who live and work here?

[Mrs. Don-o]

Just saw this, and had to share it. From an interview with Walker Percy.

---

Q. What kind of Catholic are you — a dogmatic Catholic or an open-minded Catholic?

A. I don’t know what that means. Do you mean do I believe the dogma that the Catholic Church proposes for belief?

Q. Yes.

A. Yes.

Q. How is such a belief possible in this day and age?

A. What else is there?

Q. What do you mean, what else is there? There is humanism, atheism, agnosticism, Marxism, behaviorism, materialism, Buddhism, Muhammadanism, Sufism, astrology, occultism, theosophy.

That's what I mean...

Q. I don’t understand. Would you exclude, for example, scientific humanism as a rational and honorable alternative?

A. Yes.

Q. Why?

A. It’s not good enough.

Q. Why not?

A. This life is too much trouble, far too strange, to arrive at the end and then be asked what you make of it and have to answer, “Scientific humanism.” That won’t do. A poor show. Life is a mystery, love is a delight. Therefore I take it as axiomatic that one should settle for nothing less than the infinite mystery and the infinite delight, i.e., God. In fact I demand it. I refuse to settle for anything less. I don’t see why anyone should settle for less than Jacob, who actually grabbed aholt of God and would not let go until God identified himself and blessed him.

Q. Grabbed aholt?

A. A Louisiana expression. . . .

---

[Mrs. Don-o]

Heh. I think you know what it means...

[Alex Murphy]

Just saw this, and had to share it. From an interview with Walker Percy.

In the mid-80s, Franky Schaeffer included Percy's Lost In The Cosmos: The Last Self-Help Book on his Recommended Reading list in the Christian Activist newspaper (this was before Schaeffer converted to Greek Orthodoxy, taking the paper's name with him). IMO much of what Percy wrote in that book is sheer brilliance. I've quoted from it on FR on more than one occasion.

[Tax-chick]

I think he’s going to make ideological conservatives and ideological liberals become Catholic before ideological.

Worth repeating!

[A.A. Cunningham]

Look in the mirror.

[Alex Murphy]

Look in the mirror.

Odd how some people around here don't cast a reflection.