The Polygamy Dilemma - Is Plural Marriage a Dead Issue in Mormonism?

Mormonism Research Ministry ^ | Bill McKeever

[Colofornian]

What about Polygamy in the Bible???? Could it be that Abraham, Isaac?, Jacob as well as King David and Solomon, all ancestors of Jesus Christ himself ... could be EVIL Polygamists?

I've been over this ground before with you -- at least 2-3 times.

Therefore, I will respond on the basis of "ALL"

All, Teppe thinks that just because his "D&C" scriptures mentions Isaac as a polygamist, that he was one...Yet the Bible says NOTHING at all about Isaac having more than a single wife!

Jacob became a polygamist because his father-in-law pulled one over on him; so he thinks what was introduced via deception is A-OK!

And as for Abraham, NOBODY called his wife's servant girl his "wife" except for his wife...before she slept with him.

For all we know that may have been one night; one week; one month.

Even his wife then referenced her as a "slave"...post pregnancy.

The angel of the Lord, post pregnancy, referenced her as the wife's servant...Abraham did, too...so did Moses...so did the apostle Paul in Galatians 4.

Abraham's NEXT wife came AFTER his first wife died.

[elcid1970]

Or is it “Tilted Irish Kill”?

Could explain a lot of events since 1916.

;^)

[svcw]

I do not understand the headline, lds have never given up plural marriage, they just called it celestial marriage now

[svcw]

Old argument.......get some historical context.......JS may have argued that so he could be the pedophile adulator he was......he was WRONG and so are you

[svcw]

God Almighty NEVER sanctioned marriage beyond ONE man and ONE woman.
Do your sister wives know what you do?

[svcw]

ha! Perfect when you get an answer ping me (ok I know I was pissed aggravated before but this is now) really ping me. K?

[ansel12]

I get the sense that although the LDS church does not publicly support polygamy - indeed to the contrary it denounces it, there is still an undercurrent of acceptance. Otherwise how could the polygamous communities that have thrived in Utah for decades? It seems to me that the church has merely winked at their existence because the polygamous branches of the Mormon church are being consistent with the teachings of Joseph Smith & Bringem Young.

I agree, and I believe that a few years ago when the FLDS branch of Mormonism was in the news I looked into how Utah dealt with it's many polygamists, and saw that they are tolerant of it, that is why it is so open and prevalent there.

[Tilted Irish Kilt]

elcid1970: "Could explain a lot of events since 1916. ;^)"

Actually since the 1850's , beginning with " AN GORTA MÓR ".
I think it has to do with food and manner of 'dress' ,
"where the breeze runs thru the trees, and winters run chilley .." , ..and crankey old men !

[Tilted Irish Kilt]

ansel12 ~:" I get the sense that although the LDS church does not publicly support polygamy - indeed to the contrary it denounces it, there is still an undercurrent of acceptance. "

#1: Correct "I get the sense that although the LDS church does not publicly support polygamy - indeed to the contrary it denounces it.. "
#2: Wrong " ..there is still an undercurrent of acceptance. "
There may be clandestine acceptance by LDS members , but not by the Church hierarcy.
The " Law of the Land " says that polygamy is illegal in this country .
That is why many of the polygamists went to Mexico ,and/or Canada where it is not illegal .

[Colofornian]

The " Law of the Land " says that polygamy is illegal in this country .

Give me a break. The "law of the land" has -- for quite some time -- said that polygamy was illegal.

(That didn't stop mainstream Mormons from practicing it in the 1860s...now did it?)

Or the 1870s...right?

Or the 1880s...right?

Or even in the 1890s and early 1900s...when another couple hundred ADDITIONAL plural marriages were solemnized [see Hardy's book on polygamy...appendix for specific list by name on that one]

Also...it didn't stop the Lds church from having their "living prophets" all be polygamists until 1945...right?

[ansel12]

I meant the the Mormon leadership and their influence on the government of Utah and their influence on law enforcement.

Texas reacted to polygamy, Utah, seems to glide along pretty quietly and calmly.

[Tilted Irish Kilt]

Last I knew , Utah was a territory , until it applied for Statehood.
As a condition of statehood, it followed the "Law of the Land"
Statehood was granted , and the Church hierachcy refuted polygamy, and began excommunicating members for practicing polygamy.
Some members went to Mexico and/or Canada where it wasn't illegal.
You cite Hardy's book as a reference, right ?
Was Hardy LDS ?
What were his sources ?

[ansel12]

As a condition of statehood, it followed the "Law of the Land"

I believe that the law of the land was written in 1862 to stop Mormon Smithians from their practice of polygamy, Utah never seemed very effective in stopping the Mormon practice.

Is Utah more, or less, effective in fighting and preventing polygamy than the other American states?

[Elsie]

It would be kind of funny if someday the government forced plural marriage on the state of Utah.

Plural GAY marriage, at that!

[Elsie]

The Polygamy Dilemma - Is Plural Marriage a Dead Issue in Mormonism?

Heck...

Even the DEAD aren't 'dead' in MormonISM!

[Elsie]

Decisions decisions!

Emma Hale only!!

Fanny Alger Lucinda Morgan Harris Louisa Beaman Zina Huntington Jacobs Presendia Huntington Buell Agnes Coolbrith Sylvia Sessions Lyon Mary Rollins Lightner Patty Bartlett Sessions Marinda Johnson Hyde Elizabeth Davis Durfee Sarah Kingsley Cleveland Delcena Johnson Eliza R. Snow Sarah Ann Whitney Martha McBride Knight Ruth Vose Sayers Flora Ann Woodworth Emily Dow Partridge Eliza Maria Partridge Almera Johnson Lucy Walker Sarah Lawrence Maria Lawrence Helen Mar Kimball Hanna Ells Elvira Cowles Holmes Rhoda Richards Desdemona Fullmer Olive Frost Melissa Lott Nancy Winchester Fanny Young

[Elsie]

Polygamy: How it all got Started

 

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Joe: Hey Emma!   Guess what!?

 

Emma: You KNOW I hate these guessing games! What is it, Dear?

 

Joe: I heard a voice, probably the Lord, tell me I must take other wives.

 

Emma: WHAT!?   You ding bat!  Don't you KNOW what our precious BOOK says?   After all; YOU are the one that translated it!

 

Joe: Books; schmooks.   All I know is I've been COMMANDED to take other wives and you are to OBEY ME!!!

 

 

Emma:      "Though shalt NOT commit ADULTERY!!!"

 

 

Joe: Silly Woman!  You KNOW better than to take things out of CONTEXT!!!

 

 

 

 

 

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...and the rest is HISTORY...

 

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THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI

CHAPTER 2

 

  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.

 

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Or even HERE:

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 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

 

 

1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.

 

 

 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

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Emma: That's IT!   I'm LEAVING your sorry *!!! 

  

            Can't you EVER get straight what GOD tells you???

 

          Doctrines and Covenants 49:16 Wherefore, it is lawful that he should have one ^awife, and they twain shall be ^bone flesh, and all this that the ^cearth might answer the end of its creation;

 

 

 

 

Joe:  DARN you Emma; you were TOLD to accept this!!   Wait!!!   I hear a voice again!!!

 

 

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THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 132

 

  51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 

 

  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to ^aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.

  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, ^areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been ^afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.

  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and ^acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be ^bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ^ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of ^beternal lives in the eternal worlds.

  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid ^aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to ^brejoice.

[Elsie]

Keep up the Smears, Innuendo, Distortions and Fabrications .... no one does it better than you!

Keep up IGNORING the FACT that you are damned, Damned, DAMNED!!!

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"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

[Elsie]

Keep up the Smears, Innuendo, Distortions and Fabrications .... no one does it better than you! Joseph Smith did it!!!

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The "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story.

No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim...

only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.

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Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

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*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.

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Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:

 

What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.

[Elsie]

..... you also have a problem with God sanctioned polygamy in the Bible.

Oh?

THIS what your chosen religious organization has TAUGHT you?