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To: Talisker

“LOL, check your catechism. You may question, but not disagree. And the Church decides WHAT you may question, and WHAT the answers to your questions are.

My catechism doesn’t say anything about permitting the ordaining of homos; nor does it say anything about respecting the teachings and values of Islam.

Whose catechism are you reading? Rembert Weakland’s? Or is it Bernadin’s “Seamless Garment” catechism?

42 posted on 08/03/2013 7:20:47 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

The Catechism doesn’t say anything about ordaining homosexuals, but it does say something along the lines that Muslims worship the same God as Catholics and that we should esteem them.

That right there is Vatican II speaking to you.

I’m totally with you ebb. But part of what this Pope (which is not much different than JPII and Benedict) says and does is *directly* related to Vatican II. Vatican II brought false ecumenism.

This is why I sit here scratching my head trying to reconcile Vatican II with pre-Vatican II teachings. The Muslim faith was NEVER esteemed. It was considered false and diabolical. How any Catholic can sit here and say Church teaching has not changed on this is beyond me.

54 posted on 08/04/2013 5:26:43 AM PDT by piusv
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To: Jeff Chandler; Alas Babylon!; Mrs. Don-o; FR_addict; ebb tide; boatbums

To all of you up in arms, I understand. I finally left the Catholic Church over similiar issues. Not because I “rejected” Catholicism, and not because I “hate” Catholicism, and not because I “don’t understand” Catholicism. But because I do, indeed, understand Catholicism, at least as well as you all do (and judging from some of your responses, a whole lot more).

But here’s the deal: it doesn’t matter what I think, and it doesn’t matter what you think.

What matters is what the Church teaches. And the Church teaches that it holds the authority to decide the nature of your questions, the extent of your dissent, and the answers to your questions and dissent you may have. That’s not me talking - that’s the Church.

And as I’ve pointed out before, the Pope is not limited to certain times and offices for your obedience to him. You like to argue about the limitations of his infallibility - you’re missing my point. My point is that it doesn’t matter if he’s infallible - he’s the Pope, and you’re not. What he says, goes. You question him to the extent the Church allows you to question him, and that’s it. And you accept the answers the Church - and the Pope directly - gives you about what he said, and what he meant.

According to the Church, being a Catholic is being in a state of obedience and learning - not teaching and opinionating. And serious restrictions apply to the latter, and serious requirements to the former. That’s why I’m not a Catholic - I simply realized that I do not accept those limitations being placed upon my own search for God. Sure, it was a lot of the answers the Church gave that I disagreed with, but that’s not why I left. I left because I couldn’t stay, because staying meant violating the obedience requirements of the Church.

But everywhere I see Catholics violating those obedience requirements - remember, obedience in thought, as well as belief - and claiming to be Catholics, and claiming to “defend” the Church to me as they violate its core tenants right in front of me.

This last message from the Pope is a perfect example - he directly taught for Catholics to “integrate” homosexuals into society. At the very least, that means not loathing them. But you know, the Pope might actually mean accepting them as equals and even loving them, and dropping any bias against them in your mind, heart and soul. I don’t think such an interpretation is wildly off the mark, here.

Yet instantly, the Pope that Catholics honor as the vicar of Christ himself, the difference between Protestants and Catholics, is just some guy with an opinion they don’t have to give two cents about. Or that can be compared to murderous Popes fo the past (and by the way, the Church - not me - teaches that yes, indeed, if you lived during the time of those murderous Popes, your duty was to honor and obey them).

You think your hypocrisy goes unnoticed, but I’m telling you, it doesn’t. And I’m not the only one who finds this issue extraordinarily serious - it’s a huge Catholic issue that even Benedict commented on. Yet those who dismiss their own hypocrisy - or is it heresy? - are the first to question my motives or learning, or even call me a heretic. Whatever. Kicking over the table is a common tactic of scoundrels.

But the Church hasn’t changed its teachings. So what is a Catholic who doesn’t follow Catholicism? I mean, if there are enough of them, and they all agree that what they are doing is acceptable - is it?

That’s the kind of religio-democratic communitarian nonsense that was being offered to me as the alternative to obeying the clear obedience teachings of the Church itself. And that’s why I left, and never looked back. I disagree with the Church, but I respect it. It is what it is, and it does enormous good and sustains millions of deeply good and spiritual people despite all its propblems.

But I have no stomach for CINO waffle weasels with hidden agendas, especially concerning my relationship with God.

56 posted on 08/04/2013 4:44:21 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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