Posted on 08/05/2013 3:40:03 AM PDT by spirited irish
Even so, preach the Gospel, “in season and out.”
Thank-you for a well-reasoned, Biblically informed response. Most who have responded seem more interested in protecting “something” by attacking the author. How very sad and terrible.
“If you’re going to try to convince people that Rick Warren is somehow a conservative church leader, you’re going to have a tough sell.”
Warren accepts and preaches the supreme, infallible, authority of scripture, and the literal truths of the creeds, such as the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Jesus, the supernatural miracles of scripture, the fully divine and fully human natures of Christ, the holy trinity, the physical return of Jesus at the 2nd Coming, rejects homosexual practice.... and etc. Such things DEFINE theological conservatism (and orthodox Christianity, actually). Liberal churchmen reject ALL of the above...
Other than a contemporary worship style, and music, how exactly is Rick Warren THEOLOGICALLY liberal?
{Theological conservatism may, or may not, bring about conservative politics—depends a lot on how well informed a given Christian leader may be about politics. A lot of what is seen as sympathy toward liberal politics is simply a rather lame, uninformed naivete on the part of some Christian leaders. After all, if you only watched CNN....you may be politically moderate or liberal too.}
I’m not a big fan of Rick Warren. None-the-less, on any Christian theological scale, he is certainly conservative.
The King's Way controversy alone raises my eyebrows, as do large portions of "The Purpose Driven Life", which have been discussed at length in the religion forums, and his work with the Tony Blair Faith Foundation, which takes great pains to promote all religions as equal.
Whether or not you believe the claim that "King's Way" sets God and Allah as equals, Warren signed a New York Times letter regarding the "A Common Word" movement which read, in part, as follows:
"What is common between us lies not in something marginal nor in something merely important to each. It lies, rather, in something absolutely central to both: love of God and love of neighbor. Surprisingly for many Christians, your letter considers the dual command of love to be the foundational principle not just of the Christian faith, but of Islam as well. That so much common ground exists – common ground in some of the fundamentals of faith – gives hope that undeniable differences and even the very real external pressures that bear down upon us can not overshadow the common ground upon which we stand together. That this common ground consists in love of God and of neighbor gives hope that deep cooperation between us can be a hallmark of the relations between our two communities…"
"Chrislam" is a serious issue, and the Muslim god is false. How can a Christian pastor, especially one claiming to be conservative, hold any accommodation with a faith that does not recognize the Triune God and indeed the absolute need for saving faith in Him to get to heaven? Warren may claim to hold conservative views but surely accommodation of the Muslim god and allowing the Church of Christ to stand on equal ground with other religions would not qualify as a conservative principle.
And then there's this:
http://christiannews.net/2012/11/29/rick-warren-uncertain-if-homosexual-behavior-is-sinful-says-gays-go-to-heaven/
Dr. Warren is undoubtedly a good man and he certainly talks a good game. Yet, I'm still skeptical, as are many other posters here.
The author opens with a summary that is straightforward and Biblically factual. The fallen world was behaving in a fallen manner; the world was indeed lost in darkness and sin. Light came.
He was not the Messiah that the Jews were expecting — the conquering King come to establish his physical kingdom by overthrowing Rome, conquer Israel’s enemies, and restoring the homeland and status promised to them by the Covenant.
Instead, He was there to open the spiritual kingdom of God, in whose age we now live. The future kingdom, the physical kingdom, is indeed coming but certainly not yet upon us. Much trial and tribulation will occur before it does.
In the time leading up to the return of Jesus, there will be an abundance of false teaching. It will be everywhere. Jesus warned that the way to His kingdom — spiritual or physical — would be straight but narrow, and few would enter. Complementary teachings of Christ and His disciples are found throughout the NT, expanding on this theme and revealing that by the end of time MOST people will fall away. Scattered remnants — tattered scraps and individuals (_not_ whole denominations) will be left.
Apostasy — the end result of careful lies wrought by the Father of Lies, and disseminated by false prophets and teachers who are themselves deceived — will result in the eternal damnation of the majority of humanity.
There are only 2 ways for the _majority_ of humanity to become apostate: 1) by force or 2) by choice. Scripture makes it abundantly clear that it is through the latter means that this will happen.
Given that people have a propensity (arising from their fallen natures) to choose things that are appealing, pleasurable, self-preserving or self-serving, it isn’t much of an intellectual stretch to see that the lies the Father of Lies will put about to lead people into apostasy will be carefully constructed and present themselves as Light and Truth. If not, people won’t fall for it.
Thus, the author then moves into the body of the piece by addressing the advance of apostasy from past into present. To do this, she quite reasonably draws from a variety of quotable sources to illustrate her point. True, the author does assume the reader has some familiarity with the major ideas emerging from the Reformation and Renaissance, and with those of modernism and postmodernism and, true, the author doesn’t draw out her points with fat crayons but rather with some a bit more finer tipped. But, the reader’s lack of familiarity with these ideas or a disgruntled response to her writing style or use of language does not point to a shortfall on the part of the author as much as it does the reader.
One of her major contentions is that a particularly virulent form of apostasy is threading its way through the Church (capital “C”) as well as the church (lower case “c”). This apostasy is not new; some of its roots are ancient, others emerged in the early medieval period and still more in the Reformation. Others continue to emerge from modernism and post-modernism. All are affecting the modern church.
The author’s point was NOT a pro-catholic argument that Protestantism in general was an apostate movement that should never have happened. For those who think so, a more careful reading of the piece — accompanied by the knowledge that the author is not Roman Catholic — followed by a more humble approach to self-education on the history of the church might be warranted.
The author next addresses one particularly deceptive form of attack by the Father of Lies, one which is leading and will continue to lead to apostasy in the church. This deception is specifically targeted at the evangelic church. The author’s argument was NOT that the evangelical church itself IS evil; rather, the evangelical church has been deceived by the Father of Lies. Some evangelical churches have been more deceived than others.
Many conservative Christian thinkers are talking about this. For those who churlishly noted that this author says “nothing new”, when the message is urgent and so much of the audience is dulled by deception or pride, or both, consistent repetition is a good thing.
For those self-professing evangelicals who were offended by the author’s focus on the deception in the evangelical church, it would be good to recognize that these are times of intense spiritual warfare and the cost is high for those who allow themselves — or others — to be deceived. If you are an evangelical Christian, rather than getting your feathers ruffled and fluffing off in a cloud of offense...perhaps you might do some additional research into apostasy and the evangelical church and then turn a more humble and discerning eye toward your own church body. Be _certain_. If, indeed, your church is holding fast to Scriptural Truth then consider the warnings of this article and those of many others also writing on this topic to NOT apply to you...at least, not now. But, if your church is engaged in any of the deceived and spiritually-malformed teachings of some of the leading lights of the liberal evangelical movement...be warned. Be offended if you must — fine, whatever — but at the very least, be humble enough and discerning enough to also be warned.
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