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Speaking of divorce, pope refers to practice of Orthodox churches
Catholic Free Press ^ | August 7, 2013 | Cindy Wooden

Posted on 08/08/2013 3:56:12 PM PDT by NYer

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Comment #51 Removed by Moderator

To: markomalley

How about priests molesting boys? Is that allowed?


52 posted on 08/08/2013 7:26:45 PM PDT by AppyPappy (Obama: What did I not know and when did I not know it?)
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To: ebb tide

“Are you correcting the Pope?”

Ho! Apparently I am now subject to an inquisition by the blessed ebb tide. I guess it’s all slipping away from you now, eh?


53 posted on 08/08/2013 7:56:16 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: editor-surveyor

“Osteens and Schullers to be far closer related to the catholics than any prostestants.”

An odd statement from a protestant disavowing his fellow brothers in the faith.


54 posted on 08/08/2013 7:56:59 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: JCBreckenridge

Joking, right?

These guys hate the scriptures.


55 posted on 08/08/2013 8:20:26 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

You mean the folks that actually use all the books? Why would Catholics hate what they put together?


56 posted on 08/08/2013 8:22:20 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: JCBreckenridge

Catholics didn’t put any important scripture together. The gospels were in the northern limits of the british isles 250 years before Constantine created the Roman catholic church.

They were brought there by followers of “the way,” who were true worshipers of Yeshua, following Torah, keeping his sabbath, and feasts, just as the disciples did.


57 posted on 08/08/2013 8:32:01 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

Scriptural truth? Not all what Christ did is written in Scripture and Scripture itself affirms this. There is the Catholic Church and the rest is “everyone unto himself” as being a Church - these are heretics, renegades, and your average “low-information” Christian.


58 posted on 08/08/2013 8:39:39 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: JCBreckenridge; Steelfish
You mean the folks that actually use all the books? Why would Catholics hate what they put together?

I don't know. Why don't you ask Steelfish? He's the one who refers to Bible thumpers.

What is it with Catholics and radical leftist slurs like Bible thumper and snake-handler?

59 posted on 08/08/2013 8:39:48 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: Steelfish

>> “Not all what Christ did is written in Scripture and Scripture itself affirms this” <<

.
Its not about what he did, but what he said, and everything he said is definitely in scripture.


60 posted on 08/08/2013 8:48:36 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

“Catholics didn’t put any important scripture together.”

I see. So when did the first ‘bible’ come out with all the scriptures bound together in the list that you use?

“The gospels were in the northern limits of the british isles 250 years before Constantine created the Roman catholic church.”

So you don’t consider Origen to be Roman Catholic?

“They were brought there by followers of “the way,” who were true worshipers of Yeshua”

I see. So what you’re saying is that this whole structure of Bishops and priests and archbishops and Popes was created by Constantine.


61 posted on 08/08/2013 8:49:03 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: Zionist Conspirator

“What is it with Catholics and radical leftist slurs like Bible thumper and snake-handler?”

I have a better question. Do you believe that Catholics are saved?


62 posted on 08/08/2013 8:50:14 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: JCBreckenridge

The word was spread by believers carrying individual copies of manuscripts long before printing presses or halls full of scribes came along.

The closest thing to a book at that time was the scrolled codex of the Jews. That was what was carried as “scripture” by the believers for several centuries.

Remember about the Bereans? They were noted for searching the scrolls to verify the truth of the apostles words.


63 posted on 08/08/2013 8:56:26 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: JCBreckenridge

>> “Do you believe that Catholics are saved?” <<

.
Nobody is ‘saved’ until messiah gathers his own to the “sea of fire and glass.”


64 posted on 08/08/2013 8:58:50 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Steelfish

By Yeshua’s words, he is wherever two or three are gathered in his name, not in some monstrous pagan nicolaitan ‘cathedral.’


65 posted on 08/08/2013 9:02:54 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

“The closest thing to a book at that time was the scrolled codex of the Jews. That was what was carried as “scripture” by the believers for several centuries.”

Codexes aren’t scrolls.


66 posted on 08/08/2013 9:08:20 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: editor-surveyor

“Nobody is ‘saved’ until messiah gathers his own to the “sea of fire and glass.” “

You don’t believe you are, at present, saved? Really? That’s a bit of a surprise.


67 posted on 08/08/2013 9:09:40 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: JCBreckenridge

>> “So what you’re saying is that this whole structure of Bishops and priests and archbishops and Popes was created by Constantine” <<

.
What you describe is what Yeshua denounced as “the nicolaitanes.”

That began in the first century, but had no connection to Yeshua whatsoever. It is what Constantine took and formed his pagan abomination.

Yeshua’s way had no “great ones” (Rabbis, Priests that he forbade) All were brothers and sisters and shared the work and the joy.


68 posted on 08/08/2013 9:10:48 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: JCBreckenridge

>> “You don’t believe you are, at present, saved?” <<

.
I believe that I am one of his election, and it is up to me to remain in his fellowship until his return to gather us at the last trump of Yom Teruah.


69 posted on 08/08/2013 9:14:21 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: JCBreckenridge

The Allepo Codex isn’t a codex?

The Lenningrad Codex isn’t a codex?

Wow.


70 posted on 08/08/2013 9:17:44 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

“What you describe is what Yeshua denounced as “the nicolaitanes.”

Really? Jesus came to abolish the priesthood? I don’t see that in scripture anywhere.

I do see this:

Hebrews 3:1

“Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest.”

“Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything.” “Moses was faithful as a servant in all God’s house,” bearing witness to what would be spoken by God in the future. But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house.” And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.”

So it’s right there, Jesus did not come to tear down the House of God, rather he built it.

“That began in the first century”

That’s not what the Fathers of the Church like St. Clement say. They claim that the line of bishops is unbroken from Apostles.

“Yeshua’s way had no “great ones” “

Read Hebrews 11.

Hebrews 12:1

“Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles”


71 posted on 08/08/2013 9:23:20 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: editor-surveyor

They are not scrolls.

Both date over 1000 years after the birth of Christ.

Is that really the best evidence you have for your position? We have Codices that are 700 years older than those that are still in existence today.

Codices, Vaticanus, Sinaticus and Alexandrinus are all mostly complete and far, far older. They existed in the middle 4th century.


72 posted on 08/08/2013 9:25:28 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: editor-surveyor

“I believe that I am one of his election”

Do you enumerate Catholics among the elect?


73 posted on 08/08/2013 9:26:18 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: JCBreckenridge

I do know some catholics that appear to be.

Most appear to hate him.


74 posted on 08/08/2013 9:30:16 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: JCBreckenridge

All codex means is that it has an ordered index system.


75 posted on 08/08/2013 9:31:17 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: JCBreckenridge

Vaticanus, and Sinaticus are collections of manuscripts that by the vatican’s own scholarship are admitted to have been deleberately corrupted.


76 posted on 08/08/2013 9:33:53 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

A codex refers to the specific type of binding. Scrolls are not bound in the same fashion as a codex.

“a quire of manuscript pages held together by stitching: the earliest form of book, replacing the scrolls and wax tablets of earlier times.”

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/codices

Calling something a ‘codex of scrolls’ is a misnomer. Codexes are an upgrade from scrolls.


77 posted on 08/08/2013 9:36:53 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: editor-surveyor

“Vaticanus, and Sinaticus are collections of manuscripts that by the vatican’s own scholarship are admitted to have been deleberately corrupted.”

Ooh. [[citation needed]] for that one.


78 posted on 08/08/2013 9:37:20 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: editor-surveyor

“Most appear to hate him.”

How so?


79 posted on 08/08/2013 9:38:03 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: NYer

And away we go . . .


80 posted on 08/08/2013 10:27:56 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (People are idiots.)
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To: JCBreckenridge
I'm not saying it is for sure, but this line gives me pause:

With reference to the issue of giving communion to persons in a second union (because those who are divorced can receive communion, there is no problem, but when they are in a second union, they can’t…), I believe that we need to look at this within the larger context of the entire pastoral care of marriage.

It sure sounds like he is at least considering a change here, no?

81 posted on 08/09/2013 6:17:15 AM PDT by piusv
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
I don’t know what the view of the Eastern Orthodox is on marriage, (though I find most of the rest of their theology to be vapid)

Care to share the study and research that produced this conclusion?

82 posted on 08/09/2013 6:27:48 AM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory, and He will not be mocked! Blessed be the Name of the Lord forever!)
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To: piusv

I hope not. Has personal significance to me (even though I’m not married yet). I would be sad to see the change.


83 posted on 08/09/2013 8:32:20 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: JCBreckenridge

Most “codexes” are not bound at all.

Many do not even have ‘hard’ documents.

Your county’s official records system is termed a “codex,” and it consists of a number of “codexes” that are usually full of digital documents these days.

Codex mostly indicates an indexing system that permits easy access to specific pages or sets of pages.


84 posted on 08/09/2013 10:36:08 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: JCBreckenridge

>> “How so?” <<

.
Those that love him keep his commandments.


85 posted on 08/09/2013 10:40:35 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: NYer; nickcarraway
I suppose his will open a floodgate of anecdote-based opinion, but...

I was never a convert to Orthodoxy nor a member of an Orthodox parish but went to both the Orthodox and Catholic LIturgies every week for 10 years. (Due to the happy availability of the Catholic Saturday Vigil Mass!) Anyhow, the two divorces/remarriages I observed in the Orthodox Church were both illustrations of the saying,

"If you can't be a good example,
you'll just have to be a horrible warning."

Here's the story... (Nope, delete) I just erased a bunch of anecdote. Suffice it to say, I saw families ripped up and torn to pieces because of wives who wheedled their way into Orthodox-Church-approved divorces, described to me as "merciful" applications of "oeconomia."

In once case in particular, the wife finally fell back into reality, regretting what she'd done and wishing sorely that she had kept her old disappointing husband (who was actually a very decent guy) and her marriage intact.

The suffering she inflicted on her family through that "merciful" divorce was immeasurable.

I think she would not have done it, if her pastor had given her a flat "No."

86 posted on 08/09/2013 11:44:56 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("See something, say something.")
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To: JCBreckenridge
“What is it with Catholics and radical leftist slurs like Bible thumper and snake-handler?”

I have a better question. Do you believe that Catholics are saved?

Since I don't believe in chrstian "salvation" at all, the question is a non-sequitur.

Be advised that I am going to click on the "abuse" button from now on every time I see the words "Bible-thumper" or "snake-handler." Such slurs belong to leftists, not anyone calling him/herself "conservative."

87 posted on 08/09/2013 11:56:19 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: editor-surveyor

I’ve already provided a citation demonstrating that your definition of a Codex is incorrect. Take it up with Daniel Webster.


88 posted on 08/09/2013 1:50:00 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: editor-surveyor

If ‘keeping his commandments’ were the requirement for salvation, we are all condemned. We are under Law, not Grace.


89 posted on 08/09/2013 1:50:47 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: Zionist Conspirator

“christian “salvation” at all”

Why am I unsurprised that you reject Christian salvation?

“Such slurs belong to leftists, not anyone calling him/herself ‘conservative.’ “

The only one who has used these terms in this thread is yourself.


90 posted on 08/09/2013 1:52:43 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Interesting. Thank you for sharing Mrs. DonO. It is good to get the woman’s perspective on this - I have not often heard a woman preferring justice to mercy. Most would rather ‘keep their own options open’ than say what you have said here.

Did the ex ever get into why she found her old husband disappointing, or is that better left to a private message?


91 posted on 08/09/2013 1:55:50 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: editor-surveyor

Yeah! Gather in His name and His name is His “teaching” and His “Church” not the not like the New Age Bible believers or for that matter any three who hold hands, dance around the sand at Easter and assemble with their local “Foursquare Church” pastor for Sunrise Services. All fine for low-information Christians as part of the leftover from the curse of the Reformation that has spawned some 35,000 Christian sects.

It’s ONE truth; ONE Church; ONE Peter; ONE flock; ONE Sacrifice; and Christ as ONE Shepherd.

The rest is all rubbish.

The Great Commission
(Mark 16:14-18)

“And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And seeing them they adored: but some doubted. And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”


92 posted on 08/09/2013 1:58:41 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; nickcarraway
The suffering she inflicted on her family through that "merciful" divorce was immeasurable.

Divorce may seem to resolve one problem but, like a stone dropped into a pond, the ripple effect impacts everyone. Couples need to consider their vows and take them seriously. When they stand in the presence of God and vow to take each other: "For better or worse, in sickness and health, for richer or poorer, until death they do part", is most serious. Just as the Ten Commandments are not suggestions or recommendations, those vows spoken before God, are equally as serious. It's always easy to find an "out clause" when problems surface; the greater challenge is to make the marriage work, from the beginning.

93 posted on 08/09/2013 2:30:11 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: Steelfish

You appear to take issue with Yeshua’s words.


94 posted on 08/09/2013 7:51:16 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

No, Christ is telling us what it means. “Go Teach” He appoints His teachers through His Church to teach ONE Truth.


95 posted on 08/09/2013 7:53:32 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Steelfish

Yeshua said that the place where he is is “wherever two or three of you are gathered in my name.”

He didn’t say “I will be in whatever huge demonic building you wish to teach that my word is not my word.”


96 posted on 08/09/2013 8:11:38 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

“Demonic building”? That would be news to Michelangelo.


97 posted on 08/09/2013 10:21:26 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: JCBreckenridge; Steelfish
The only one who has used these terms in this thread is yourself.

Your co-religionist Steelfish used the term "Bible-thumper" on this thread, as do your other co-religionists quite frequently.

"Bible-thumper" and "snake-handler" are leftist/atheist slurs and have no place on a conservative forum. I will report every instance of their use I see.

98 posted on 08/11/2013 7:13:50 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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