Posted on 08/09/2013 12:22:24 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
“Self restraint checklist. Do not:
1 Step on Superman’s cape
2 Take the mask off the lone ranger
3 Mess around with Jim
4 Rape Angels”
Right on, chess!
“There is a story in Judges 19 which has some interesting parallels to the story of Sodom. A traveling Levite stops for the night in the town of Gibeah and the “sons of Belial” beat on the door of the man who offers him hospitality, wanting the stranger sent out “that we may know him.” Instead the Levite sends out his concubine and they gang rape her until she dies. This leads to a war which almost wipes out the tribe of Benjamin.”
Yes, I remember reading this story and feeling sick.
Horrible!
“It was offensive to me that Lot would sacrifice his daughters lives in place of the angels. He did not have to offer to give daughters to rapers. Females can also be sodomized...it still ticks me off at the reading of Sodom. Men that do that today are truly sick individuals and even in prison are looked down on... He did not have to make that offer, unless he though less of his own blood females than of stangers. He could have said NO to both..”
Goes to show how far Lot’s moral principles and godliness (if he ever was that godly to begin with) had fallen.
...el bumpo....
Ummm, you are kidding right?
The sin of SODOM is called sodomy. No great mystery as to the etymology of the word--as the Western world and her languages have been influenced by Christianity and the Bible for 2,000 years now....
Legally though, in English law, "sodomy" was considered any un-natural sex (which was anything other than vaginal intercourse), whether it was between 2 men or a man and a woman.
Since the Supreme Court though, 10 years ago, declared homosexual sodomy a constitutional right....the legal definition of sodomy is moot.
That story is at the end of the book of Judges...proving the downward spiral of the tribal Israelites, who without a righteous king, “every man did what was right in his own eyes.”
Judges is an interesting book, as it follows a continual downward trend of blessing, disobedience, judgement (in the form of pagan tribes waring with them), repentance, outcry-to-God for help, salvation (in the form of a Judge who defeats their pagan enemies), blessing...then disobedience...
The fact that at the end of Judges, Israel was repeating the sins of Sodom...shows how low-down they had gotten.
The fact that the USA through our government, media and entertainment.... now hails the sins of Sodom, as wonderful and a human “right” shows how low down we have gotten...
Don't forget also that soon after this--after Lot's wife was killed, Lot's daughters got him drunk so as to get pregnant by him.
This isn't as culturally weird as we may think...in that pagan Canaanites routinely practiced incest. Even Baal and Ashteroth, Canaanite fertility gods--were brother & sister AND husband & wife...it's gross, but true. It really does show how corrupted Lot and family got, just by living with the pagan Sodomites.
It's also worth noting that when Moses recorded this, somewhere around 1400 BC, two of Israel's big pagan enemy tribes in Palestine--were their relatives descended from Lot's incest with his daughters, the Ammonites, and the Moabites.
By Moses' day, these cousin tribes were thoroughly pagan--worshipping idols, and routinely practicing child sacrifice.
I understand your objection. It would not be fatherly/manly behavior in today's society. A difficult passage to view through today's eyes. My retired Southern Baptist pastor neighbor told me 1 time that women, even in the ancient Hebrew days just didn't have many rights. Of course, I suppose Lott may have been terrified of the angels, too.
I always thought it was voting for Obama.....
Getting someone so drunk they don’t know who is around them and then having intercourse is several thousand fathoms deeper than seduction. The sin of the daughters is pretty much in line with what they learned in Sodom
Rom 1:24-28 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
Sin begets sin. Sodom probably started out nice enough but they grew cold to God's commands. Unlike Abimelech king of Gerar who responded to God, they refused to respond to the commandments of God. They committed adultery. Then they lied to one another. Then they encouraged other to do the same. Deeper and deeper they slipped into sinfulness. Their hearts grew harder in time until there is nothing left of that spark of humanity God gives us. And so God gave them up to the passion of the flesh and a debased mind.
Homosexuality is only a manifestation of more deeper rooted sins. It shows to us that God is in the process of giving us over to our sinfulness. By the time homosexuality occurred in Sodom, people's hearts had already been hardened to such an extent that everyone there was willing to commit debased crimes on visitors and spoke violently against any preaching of God's commandments. There wasn't anything left for our loving God to do but destroy it. He didn't destroy it because they were homosexuals. He did it so that it would preserve His perfect plan.
Yes, I knew that too.
Disgusting!
And if we think it disgusting and vile, how much more so does God? Wow!
The sin of Sodom & Gomorrah was the total, willful rejection of God. Lots of folks today are in a similar state - many of them are named Mohammed.
Just a warning to those Christians that are so sure they will enter the Kingdom. Even Jesus warned about such thinking.
How many freeper fathers would do to their daughters what Lot proposed to do to his. Turning them over to be raped and sodomize, females can also be sodomized...just because he felt the 2 male visitors were of more worth than his daughters...
So what that the daughters got their father drunk and had him commit incest.(He willing complied in his drunkon stupor he no longer had a wife) Through out scripture it seems that God also didn't think anything wrong with giving his daughtes to rapists, If he thought it wrong, the scripture does not state so. But lets turn Lots wife to salt, because she looked back....Was God acting against what he told men to do? He obiviously didn't think it wrong to have 2 females raped, sodomized and perhaps killed..
It the wedding of the bridegroom, he again got P Oed and told his men to go out and force people into the wedding. Was it an embarretment that so few cared about the wedding? I just have lots (not a pun) of questions about do as I say and not as I do situations.
It seems a lot of people come to the defense of such actions when they should be questioning them. just jmho.
King David lusted after another mans wife and had the husband killed so he could sleep with her...his only punishment was he couldn't build the temple cause he had too much blood on his hands, but his son by Bathsheba could...but God loved him, he repented but the husband was still dead and David when on still being Gods favorite.
Just a few questions I have never found a good reason for except, It many ways the Koran treats women the way the men of the old testament did without being chastised by God...His laws called for stoning of women just as Koran does. And has a whole lot of punishments for certain actions, some that make no sense. jmho
Ummm, I don't think you understand the nature of much of the Old Testament. In the narrative passages, in books like Genesis, Exodus, Judges, 1 & 2 Samuel & etc., history is given, usually without commentary, and a lot of that history is not pretty.
Incest and rape are CLEARLY FORBIDDEN in the Law of Moses (found mostly in Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy), with the most severe penalties commanded for those that committed rape or incest. Moses, being the writer of both these historic narratives AND the law, would of been well aware of this, and his readers would too. When characters in a history commit gross sins--the readers would know it--and it adds to the drama of how terrible the times (and the corruption of Lot--and his wicked descendants) were during that history.
There are ALL KINDS of horrible things recorded in the Bible--without direct comment--and it's up to the morally educated reader to discern right from wrong in the historical characters' actions. Lot was in no way commended for his disgusting offering up of his daughters...but hey, I think possibly--given the terrible legacy of misogeny there--some Middle Easterners (or far Eaterners) today might (cowardly) do the same thing, faced with a similar situation. (or even some in the good ol' USA)
It is very wrong though to conclude that because some Bible figure does something grossly wrong, and the biblical narrative doesn't comment on it (as it often doesn't) that means "God also didn't think anything wrong with..." it.
Historical records in the Bible are often are just that, historical records. For God's standards of ethics, you have to look elsewhere--like in the moral commands in the Bible. And for Christians of course, everything in the Old Testament must be seen through the lens of the New Testament--and the good news of Jesus Christ.
Since Dad was not going to do it voluntarily, getting him drunk was the only available option. I wouldn't be too hard on the daughters here. They were nice enough girls to be saved out of Sodom.
Perhaps it speaks to God’s capacity to love and forgive as opposed to ours.
God also knows the condition of individual hearts and acts accordingly.
Everything you have mentioned is sin in His eyes and by rights should result in death and separation from God forever for all, but in His love and mercy He made a plan to change that.
I used to often question Him, but as time passed I have seen that He is so much higher and greater than I that there is no way I could ever fully comprehend His mind. We see only from our puny human viewpoint...it’s like an ant trying to understand us.
I am sure this is not what you want to hear but it is my take after a 20-year walk. And still I have not begun to scratch the surface...a billion 20-year periods would not be enough.
I agree that it all changed with Jesus and how he taught. But there are lingering things in my mind. That's just my problem to deal with....thanks for your answering....
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