Posted on 08/20/2013 2:08:32 PM PDT by Gamecock
Discussion leader Bill Leonard, an author and church historian at Wake Forest Divinity School, was asked why Baptists don’t use wine in the rite. He immediately proclaimed “I long for the day” when they do.
Most Baptists and other Protestants, except Episcopalians and Lutherans, switched from wine during the temperance movements of the 19th and 20th centuries.
But if Baptists today are going to argue – as some do – for full immersion baptism and re-baptize new members from other Christian churches, then they should embrace the biblical standard of wine in the supper, Leonard said.
“Here we are talking about retaining immersion, but we gave up wine at the drop of a temperance hat,” Leonard said.
Leonard has previously noted that Primitive Baptists stuck to wine while the rest were abandoning it.
But Leonard’s longing is likely to remain an unrequited one, at least for the foreseeable future.
‘No movement’
Recent tradition is partly responsible for that, and so is a genuine concern for recovering alcoholics, said Curtis Freeman, a research professor of theology and director of the Baptist House of Studies at Duke University.
Romans chapter 14 is often cited in making that argument because it instructs Christians to accommodate weaker brothers and sisters, he said.
Freeman speculated that Fellowship Baptists may be open to the idea of returning to wine in worship, compared to other Baptist traditions. And younger Baptists involved in the emergent church also are open to it.
“But there is no movement in Baptist life to return to it,” Freeman said.
‘Habits hard to break’
It’s even a tough sell in congregations where members have experimented with communion wine and liked it, said Rodney Kennedy, senior pastor at First Baptist Church in Dayton, Ohio.
For five weeks in February and March, the American Baptist church hosted an Episcopal parish whose building was being renovated. That act of hospitality required FBC to provide wine stations for the Anglican visitors in addition to the usual grape juice. Kennedy said he was amazed to see how his congregants responded.
“Almost everybody went with the real thing,” he said.
Kennedy describes himself as a “small c, small b Catholic Baptist” who would switch to wine in a heartbeat.
“But it would be a pretty controversial switch,” he said. “There are people who drink wine (socially) but if you ask them to change the church’s policy, they would be reluctant, to say the least.”
That, even though Scripture is clear Christ used wine in the Last Supper, he added. “Habits are hard to break even if they haven’t any biblical sense about them.”
‘Fundamentalist mindset’
Even so, some can see it happening in the next one or two generations.
One of those is Troy Dixon, pastor of Normandy Park Baptist Church, a Southern Baptist congregation in Jacksonville, Fla.
Dixon said he abstains from alcohol to keep from scandalizing others.
“We are still under the grip of that fundamentalist mindset where any alcohol is taboo, forbidden, of the devil,” Dixon said.
“But around the periphery” there are others rejecting that mindset, he said. He noted that some larger SBC churches, especially in the Northwest, have experimented with microbrewery classes to draw in the unchurched.
It all makes him think future generations of Baptists may embrace social drinking and, eventually, wine for communion – at least in some parts of the country.
“I could see some groups over the next generation beginning to embrace it.”
I’m in a rare position on this.
I’d ALWAYS had “grape juice communion” thru age 38.
Then I had it with wine. The effect happened just once: a flush of radiant warmth, a sense of life coursing thru my veins unlike any other Lord’s Supper experience. I understood then that was the intent both in real experience and spiritual implication.
Grape juice is missing the point.
I guess it’s because there were no “recovering” alcoholics (or no alcoholics) in Jesus day that He was free to both miraculously create and drink wine Himself.
After all, they did accuse Him of being a “wine-bibber”....partaker.....
;-)
“Just who was scandalized when Jesus served up great wine at the wedding in Cana?”
The chief steward, that’s who. When he sampled the water changed to wine, he summoned the bridegroom and basically said,
“You moron, why did you save the best wine until last? Your guests are already too snockered on the cheap stuff to even know the dfference!”
And if the servants had brought him grape juice as some maintain, the steward would have tasted, thrown his goblet down, announced “I quit!!” and stormed out.
That’s always been my favorite Baptist joke, too! It says so much about the priorities. And I think you really have to have been immersed in the Baptist church to really “get it”. As a Baptist P.K., I think it’s hilarious.
All we like sheep have gone astray............
I would like to see wine in my communion cup.
But I would argue we have gone too far astray in other ways. I have been convicted to grow out my hair. I believe women would be wise to return to wearing head coverings and modest clothing. One young woman at our church always has her head covered on Sundays. And if I was a young married, I would ditch my birth control and allow God to choose the number of children I had, although I had four in spite of the birth control!
We have become entirely too worldly when we were told to separate ourselves from the world. Grape juice is scratching the surface of our disobedience.
So you just ignore what Christ said ("Do this") as a "weird extraneous ritual?"
And do you know that the wine (alcohol) is only a very small amount? In my church, it's only a spoonful. Not enough to even physically affect a baby, but it is eternal life! John 6:54.
Have you heard about the discovery of the long-lost cask of wine just found by archeologists digging at the site of the Wedding of Cana in Israel? They think it must be some of the wine created from water by Jesus when Mary told him that the host had run out of wine! Surely the taste must be heavenly!
I urge you to check out the Orthodox Church. We have all the things you mentioned, plus a lot more. We call it the Fullness of Faith.
No its not. You can worship a spoonful of wine if you want but worshipping Christ does not require a pantry
I don’t understand your post. It is illegal in this state to give alcohol to persons under 21.
parents are allowed to give their own child a glass at dinner or something
but a non-parent like a church seems a bit weird
I’m not a Baptist, but being born and raised in Jerry Falwell’s town, I know quite a few of them; some are in my husband’s family.
The Bible cautions against becoming drunk with wine, but does not command abstinence. In fact, Psalm 104 lists “wine that gladdens human hearts” among the many bounties God has given us.
My husband’s sister got married a couple of months ago. There was wine and champagne for those who wanted it, and the Baptists in the family were fine with that.
They key is to use really bad wine.
So someone who attends Sunday service every week is not a Christian?
What about someone who reads a chapter from Scripture every night before they go to bed, or before they leave for work in the morning?
What about someone who prays every night?
How random and unplanned must one's actions be, in order to be considered a true Christian?
whining about wine. the time is ???
ever hear of the separation of church and state?
I thought non-Catholics didn’t believe in the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. Or the bread and wine they come from.
Good luck with that. Do you have a case citation where a church giving wine to minors got First Amendment immunity from a court?
Not sure where you are going with this.
You do know we celebrate communion, right?
By what right did your forefathers in the church change it to begin with?
I have been involved, as chairman and otherwise, in a nondenominational Christian school for the past 11 years. I came upon this abstaining from wine (at communion and otherwise) when socializing with families there, many of whom are evangelicals with Baptist roots.
I must say, for people who consult the epistles of Paul for guidance about hemlines and worship music, they are awful quick to disregard or explain away Jesus' charge to Peter or the clear and consistent use of wine in the church for almost two thousand years, following the Lord's own actions. "Do this" He said. DO...THIS. Not much room for interpretation there.
There are not many things that Jesus prescribed in an unequivocal manner. With regard to breaking the bread and sharing the wine, however, the scriptures are perfectly clear (as they are about remarriage after divorce, too, by the way).
The Baptist mainstream is fine with discarding wine and with remarriage after divorce, but not with minor ephemera teased out of various parts of the Bible.
Straining at gnats while swallowing camels, perhaps?
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