Posted on 08/20/2013 2:08:32 PM PDT by Gamecock
Discussion leader Bill Leonard, an author and church historian at Wake Forest Divinity School, was asked why Baptists don’t use wine in the rite. He immediately proclaimed “I long for the day” when they do.
Most Baptists and other Protestants, except Episcopalians and Lutherans, switched from wine during the temperance movements of the 19th and 20th centuries.
But if Baptists today are going to argue – as some do – for full immersion baptism and re-baptize new members from other Christian churches, then they should embrace the biblical standard of wine in the supper, Leonard said.
“Here we are talking about retaining immersion, but we gave up wine at the drop of a temperance hat,” Leonard said.
Leonard has previously noted that Primitive Baptists stuck to wine while the rest were abandoning it.
But Leonard’s longing is likely to remain an unrequited one, at least for the foreseeable future.
‘No movement’
Recent tradition is partly responsible for that, and so is a genuine concern for recovering alcoholics, said Curtis Freeman, a research professor of theology and director of the Baptist House of Studies at Duke University.
Romans chapter 14 is often cited in making that argument because it instructs Christians to accommodate weaker brothers and sisters, he said.
Freeman speculated that Fellowship Baptists may be open to the idea of returning to wine in worship, compared to other Baptist traditions. And younger Baptists involved in the emergent church also are open to it.
“But there is no movement in Baptist life to return to it,” Freeman said.
‘Habits hard to break’
It’s even a tough sell in congregations where members have experimented with communion wine and liked it, said Rodney Kennedy, senior pastor at First Baptist Church in Dayton, Ohio.
For five weeks in February and March, the American Baptist church hosted an Episcopal parish whose building was being renovated. That act of hospitality required FBC to provide wine stations for the Anglican visitors in addition to the usual grape juice. Kennedy said he was amazed to see how his congregants responded.
“Almost everybody went with the real thing,” he said.
Kennedy describes himself as a “small c, small b Catholic Baptist” who would switch to wine in a heartbeat.
“But it would be a pretty controversial switch,” he said. “There are people who drink wine (socially) but if you ask them to change the church’s policy, they would be reluctant, to say the least.”
That, even though Scripture is clear Christ used wine in the Last Supper, he added. “Habits are hard to break even if they haven’t any biblical sense about them.”
‘Fundamentalist mindset’
Even so, some can see it happening in the next one or two generations.
One of those is Troy Dixon, pastor of Normandy Park Baptist Church, a Southern Baptist congregation in Jacksonville, Fla.
Dixon said he abstains from alcohol to keep from scandalizing others.
“We are still under the grip of that fundamentalist mindset where any alcohol is taboo, forbidden, of the devil,” Dixon said.
“But around the periphery” there are others rejecting that mindset, he said. He noted that some larger SBC churches, especially in the Northwest, have experimented with microbrewery classes to draw in the unchurched.
It all makes him think future generations of Baptists may embrace social drinking and, eventually, wine for communion – at least in some parts of the country.
“I could see some groups over the next generation beginning to embrace it.”
Was Jesus concerned about weaker brothers and sisters when he converted water into wine?
Dixon said he abstains from alcohol to keep from scandalizing others.
Just who was scandalized when Jesus served up great wine at the wedding in Cana?
As a Southern Baptist, let me just say that I see no real reason to do this. I don’t think the Bible commands that wine be used.
On the other hand, I see no real reason not to, either. I drink a little; I know other Baptists that do, too. I also dance and play with a standard deck of cards, not Rook cards, although I play with Rook cards, too.
Still, what is the point in pushing the change?
Baptists are a lot more liberal today. Heck, it’s gotten to the point that they wave at each other in liquor stores.
The CRC we were a part of for a long time used wine. (They also had a number of cups with white grape juice for those that did not want wine.)
Grape juice for the kids?
My Dad was once on the Vestry of our small Episcopal parish in the NE. They were working with the Rector to brainstorm ideas of how to bring new membership into an aging church in a town that was itself aging out as the kids left for greener pastures.
His idea: use a different wine for Communion every week, and announce what the weekly selection would be in the little 4-5 line section in the local newspaper that the church was given for services-related information.
The other members of the Vestry looked at him like he was nuts. I, on the other hand, thought and still think it’s a really good idea ...
My kids have been using wine in communion for as long as they have been taking communion.
The church gave it up as not worth the brain damage, so to speak.
I am a Lutheran pastor (LCMS). I only use wine for the Sacrament.
Not so. We Lutherans do not have a problem communing those who are under 21.
Protestants don’t recognize the Pope.
Jews don’t recognize Jesus.
Baptists don’t recognize each other in the liquor store.
Q: How do you keep your Baptist friend from drinking your beer on a fishing trip?
A: Invite another Baptist.
Interesting story.
Jesus did use wine, so while it might be a stretch to say it is a biblical command, He did say "Do this..." after He took the cup.
I once heard of a Southern Baptist who claimed that Jesus had actually changed water into grape juice, not wine. The rationale was that after changing from water the juice did not have time to ferment and change to wine.
And I have got to say that I don't care at all for the little glass cups in the metal dispenser. I once told my wife that it sounds like a Holy Hubcap clanking down the pews.
“I see no real reason to do this. I don’t think the Bible commands that wine be used.”
You think Christ had grape juice in that Last Supper cup?
Do you know why you never take just one Baptist fishing with you? He will drink all your beer.
Mine is:
Always invite two Baptists along on your fishing trips. If you just bring one, he’ll drink all your beer.
No it does not and I don't drink, period. I wouldn't attend a church that gave alcohol to kids either.
Then again I'm a Baptist and I don't do all these weird extraneous rituals. Rituals are not Christian.
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