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After Five Centuries of Division, Catholics and Lutherans Consider Their Common Heritage
National Catholic Register ^ | 8/21/13 | CHARLOTTE HAYS

Posted on 08/21/2013 5:11:36 PM PDT by ebb tide

WASHINGTON — Although Martin Luther likely simply sent his Ninety-Five Theses — his harsh critique of contemporary Catholicism — to the local archbishop instead of dramatically nailing them to the church door in Wittenberg, Germany, the event is commonly regarded as marking the beginning of the Protestant Reformation.

A new document, “From Conflict to Communion: Lutheran-Catholic Commemoration of the Reformation in 2017,” has been released to pave the way for joint observances of Luther’s action by both Lutherans and Catholics, a development that certainly could not have been foreseen in previous centuries.

(Excerpt) Read more at ncregister.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ecumenism; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholics; elca; lutheran; lutherans; lwf
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1 posted on 08/21/2013 5:11:36 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

This is nothing new. They’ve been talking like this for a generation. Nothing will ever come of it unless the Lutherans put themselves under the authority of the Pope.


2 posted on 08/21/2013 5:14:23 PM PDT by DManA
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To: ebb tide

just erase history


3 posted on 08/21/2013 5:14:46 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: ebb tide

A sign that the Holy Spirit is at work to bring the Christians back together as Jesus prayed that all His followers will be one.


4 posted on 08/21/2013 5:16:14 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: ebb tide

Luther was of the Other


5 posted on 08/21/2013 5:21:21 PM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Biggirl

The true church of believers transcends current religious groups and denominations. And it always will because THAT is the true unity of believers Christ wants.


6 posted on 08/21/2013 5:21:48 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Biggirl

Unless the Roman Catholics become Lutherans, I don’t see anything “coming back together” in anyone’s future.


7 posted on 08/21/2013 5:26:00 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

But still it cannot hurt to have greater respect and support in this age of growing anti-Christian hatred.


8 posted on 08/21/2013 5:27:00 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: ebb tide; HoosierDammit; TYVets; red irish; fastrock; NorthernCrunchyCon; UMCRevMom@aol.com; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

9 posted on 08/21/2013 5:30:10 PM PDT by narses
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To: Biggirl

I disagree. Rome has dropped all pretenses of trying to convert people to Catholicism. Otherwise, no true Catholic (only my opinion) would talk about “communion” with Lutherans.


10 posted on 08/21/2013 5:31:50 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Biggirl

They’ve been doing dialogs and meetings together for fifty years.

Local churches have had their pastors and priests have periodic meet and greets and breakfasts once a month, kind of things forever.

It’s like people think denominations live in vacuums. They don’t and everyone in the real world knows that. All the priests and pastors know about all the others in their cities and areas, and they are all mostly civil if not more so.

But to try to twist out of this cordiality, some kindof getting together in terms of beliefs, unless one side is going to cave completely, that just is not going to happen.

You’re instead going to be left with some common-core, sloppy agape, false unity crap that is rightly going to appeal to no one who cares about actual doctrinal truth. But I am sure they’ll have a hell of a praise band whooping up the place.


11 posted on 08/21/2013 5:32:07 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: ebb tide

And if you exclude ELCA, the other Lutheran bodies actually make sure people have a proper understanding of communion, or they ask the person to refrain from taking it.


12 posted on 08/21/2013 5:33:55 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: ebb tide

As I have said on a gazillion threads, what unites us is far greater than what divides us.

I’m a staunch 5-point Calvinist. I also recognize that there are plenty of Catholics who love Jesus and want to serve Him as best they can. There are also plenty of cultural “Catholics” whose faith is completely nonexistent. The very same can be said of Protestants - plenty who love Jesus, plenty who are Christians in name only.

The divides between Protestant, Orthodox, and Catholic are nothing more than family squabbles.


13 posted on 08/21/2013 5:38:41 PM PDT by Terabitten (I'd rather have one Walker than fourteen runners.)
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To: Terabitten

no you need to study Catholicism to understand what you are talking about. Also Judaism


14 posted on 08/21/2013 5:43:21 PM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Good point. And is the Catholic Church talking about “communion” with all Lutheran bodies or just a few of them? If the latter, which bodies?


15 posted on 08/21/2013 5:57:03 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

I think they’ve been discussing stuff with a couple different lutheran church bodies in Europe.

Not in America. ELCA is too far left. and LCMS and WELS are never ever going to consider any kind of doctrinal bonding, much less integrate back into, the RCC.


16 posted on 08/21/2013 6:00:39 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: ebb tide

Common heritage - like, ummm, Yashua???


17 posted on 08/21/2013 6:00:48 PM PDT by SkyDancer (A white woman would be accused of racism if she gave birth to a white baby.)
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To: Terabitten

IF you spend time to research the doctrinal differences they are not just “family squabbles”. People that don’t take the time to understand that, throw platitudes and dismiss real theological divides as nothing big at all.


18 posted on 08/21/2013 6:02:56 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Biggirl

wow..think of the political implications...this might work out well.


19 posted on 08/21/2013 6:16:52 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Pray for our country...Pray for America and the brave souls who are defending us!)
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To: Secret Agent Man
Local churches have had their pastors and priests have periodic meet and greets and breakfasts once a month, kind of things forever.

I lived in a small town central New York all of the Churches got together for community outreach. Each of them took a separate area and made that the focus of their ministry so to reduce/ eliminate duplication of effort. All of them participated except for one of the Baptist groups. The Lutherans did the food pantry, two of the other Baptists took care of the clothing/ household items/ etc...

Both the Catholics took care of the Holiday outreach. The best was there was no sheep poaching.

20 posted on 08/21/2013 6:17:55 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: Terabitten
As I have said on a gazillion threads, what unites us is far greater than what divides us. I’m a staunch 5-point Calvinist. I also recognize that there are plenty of Catholics who love Jesus and want to serve Him as best they can. There are also plenty of cultural “Catholics” whose faith is completely nonexistent. The very same can be said of Protestants - plenty who love Jesus, plenty who are Christians in name only.

Thank you.

21 posted on 08/21/2013 6:19:18 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: Secret Agent Man

It is a family fight. A nasty, bitter, family fight.

The issues are real, but at least we are not looking at each other over rifle sights.


22 posted on 08/21/2013 6:21:09 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: DManA

I find this highly unlikely given that Lutherans, at last the LCMS, believe that the pope is an antichrist.


23 posted on 08/21/2013 6:26:44 PM PDT by Roos_Girl (The world is full of educated derelicts. - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: Roos_Girl

No, I don’t find it very likely either. But that’s the price of Roman co-communion.

You can fudge just about everything else, even the doctrines behind Holy Communion itself but not church hierarchy.


24 posted on 08/21/2013 6:36:08 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Secret Agent Man

I have never, ever understood how one can reform an institution by leaving it.


25 posted on 08/21/2013 6:36:19 PM PDT by MrChips (MrChips)
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To: ebb tide

For what its worth, I was at a training session in the Spring, for the Alpha program in Calgary. The goal, Alberta-wide, is to have 30,000 do the Alpha course. The meeting was held at a large evangelical church and had attendees from 25-30 churches. Among the speakers was the Alpha Co-ordinator for the Calgary Diocese(sp?). He explained that the Alpha program, as presented in Alberta RC churches was the same as that presented by the Protestant churches.


26 posted on 08/21/2013 6:36:53 PM PDT by A Formerly Proud Canadian (I once was lost but now I'm found; blind but now I see.)
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To: verga

Thank you for that last half sentence. I was about to write it.


27 posted on 08/21/2013 6:38:08 PM PDT by MrChips (MrChips)
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To: ebb tide
The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) is a dialogue partner in USCCB ecumenical discussions and belongs to the Lutheran World Federation, which represents the Lutheran side in international dialogue with the Catholic Church.

The ELCA and the LWF--the usual suspects. Extremely LIBERAL "Lutherans." The real Lutherans, the confessional ones, are not party to this farce.

28 posted on 08/21/2013 7:01:51 PM PDT by Charles Henrickson (Lutheran pastor, LCMS)
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To: Charles Henrickson
The real Lutherans, the confessional ones, are not party to this farce.

That's encouraging. I can't vouch for the "Catholics" who are party to same farce; but I'm not one of them.

29 posted on 08/21/2013 7:08:56 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: MrChips

Two things:

1. He pleaded with Rome for years for reform and no reforms occurred.

2. Don’t confuse being a Catholic (subset) with being a Christian. Christianity is larger than Catholicism, or any one particular denomination. The believers before Christ were believers and had no conceptual idea of what “Roman Catholics” are.


30 posted on 08/21/2013 8:11:33 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: verga

Yes, but what I actually meant was that priests and pastors of different denominations actually once every month or two, got together for a breakfast somewhere together. Not to do anything religious, but just to kind of stay in touch/keep up on what was going on. They all have feelers out and know what’s going on in their communities and generally who does what, etc.


31 posted on 08/21/2013 8:14:43 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man; marshmallow

I believe it will be the other way around. Just like with the Anglicans who became Catholic....what if this Pope opens up something like that?


32 posted on 08/21/2013 8:15:57 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Roos_Girl

**LCMS, believe that the pope is an antichrist**

Where are you getting this misinformation?


33 posted on 08/21/2013 8:18:30 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Secret Agent Man
Unless the Roman Catholics become Lutherans, I don’t see anything “coming back together” in anyone’s future.

so you think that Catholics should follow the teachings of a dissident priest rather than the teachings of Christ....I don't think that it would be wise to do so...

34 posted on 08/21/2013 8:23:16 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: terycarl

Christ never taught the infallibility of the Pope, the physical ascension of mary, the sinlessness of mary, buying indulgences, throwing hundreds of anathemas at those who don’t believe every iota of what you do, of torturing people for confessions and ‘conversions’, or mentioning a formal formula for official sainthood as opposed to us normal sinner-saints, and allowing tradition to trump His Word.


35 posted on 08/21/2013 8:32:03 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Salvation

The only people who’d return are the ones that won’t mind being under a pope. I am happy being under Jesus and His Holy Spirit. I have great pastors that are godly men (MEN) and are true shepherds.


36 posted on 08/21/2013 8:34:04 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Salvation

It’s on the LCMS website, and I’ve talked with my LCMS pastor about it in the past.


37 posted on 08/21/2013 8:38:46 PM PDT by Roos_Girl (The world is full of educated derelicts. - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: Roos_Girl; Salvation; mickie; flaglady47
I'm baptized, confirmed LCMS and have never heard that sentiment in my life. Where on earth did you come up with such a canard?

The pontiffs engender great respect among contemporary Missouri Synod Lutherans......and undoubtedly among most other Christians in the civilized countries.

38 posted on 08/21/2013 8:47:52 PM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: DManA

No thanks. I’d rather keep what I’d earned instead of forwarding to pedarasts......


39 posted on 08/21/2013 8:48:06 PM PDT by slapshot ("Were not gonna take it anymore" Twisted Sister)
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To: terycarl

No.. We follow the Bible and do not tolerate pedarasts. We out them and have them arrested instead of hiding them and hiring 500$/hr lawyers to discredit those who have been abused.


40 posted on 08/21/2013 8:50:34 PM PDT by slapshot ("Were not gonna take it anymore" Twisted Sister)
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To: slapshot

Did you think I was offering you something? Weird.


41 posted on 08/21/2013 8:54:49 PM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA

No the RC Church exists for one thing only: To increase the bottom line. It is the oldest most profitable multinational corporation on the planet.
It also has a history of hiding/moving “management” to minimize exposure to adverse publicity


42 posted on 08/21/2013 8:57:52 PM PDT by slapshot ("Were not gonna take it anymore" Twisted Sister)
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To: slapshot

I’m sorry. I misunderstood your point.


43 posted on 08/21/2013 8:59:30 PM PDT by DManA
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To: MinuteGal

As I said, that “canard” is straight from the LCMS website. Such a pretty way to call me a fibber.


44 posted on 08/21/2013 9:03:13 PM PDT by Roos_Girl (The world is full of educated derelicts. - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Exactly.


45 posted on 08/21/2013 9:03:28 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: slapshot

**To increase the bottom line. It is the oldest most profitable multinational corporation on the planet.**

Do you want to supply some dollar figures there.

The Catholic Church supports hospitals, schools, relief efforts, higher education, liturgy, interpretation of the scriptures, and on and on — even the retired priests and nuns.

I believe your information is in error.


46 posted on 08/21/2013 9:05:31 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: slapshot


47 posted on 08/21/2013 9:07:34 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: MinuteGal

http://www.lcms.org/doctrine/doctrinalposition


48 posted on 08/21/2013 9:11:08 PM PDT by Roos_Girl (The world is full of educated derelicts. - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: Salvation

DONT. EVEN. START.


49 posted on 08/21/2013 9:14:56 PM PDT by slapshot ("Were not gonna take it anymore" Twisted Sister)
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To: Salvation

you asked for it THIS ONLY SCRATCHES THE SURFACE Please feel free to address the understated 30K cases of molestation.....

Abuse During Modern Times

From 1960 to 2010, more than 30,000 people in 25 countries have come forward and accused priests of molestation. The scandal has only really become widely known since about 1985, when Father Gilbert Gauthe pleaded guilty to 11 cases of sexually abusing children in Lafayette, Louisiana. He served 10 years in prison.

Since then, more and more attention to the pedophilia in the church clergy caused even Pope Benedict XVI to say he is “deeply ashamed” of the U.S.’s abuse scandal and will exclude pedophiles from the priesthood. In a letter to the Irish Catholic Church in March 2010, however, Pope Benedict blamed the scandal on “fast-paced change and secularisation”, saying that it led to a moral decline. (Newenham) However, this contradicts directly all documents through the ages stating that pedophilia on behalf of the clergy has been a problem throughout the ages.


50 posted on 08/21/2013 9:19:08 PM PDT by slapshot ("Were not gonna take it anymore" Twisted Sister)
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