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To: presently no screen name

The words of your saint

“13. If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner.”

http://onecanhappen.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/martin-luther-sin-boldly-%E2%80%94-no-sin-can-separate-us-from-him-even-if-we-were-to-kill-or-commit-adultery-thousands-of-times-each-day/

Yep. So go and sin boldly. Just as Luther did! He died of sloth and gluttony. Some saint.


65 posted on 08/22/2013 10:23:38 PM PDT by Morgana (Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: Morgana
Posting words given to you by 'man' - not surprised you believe them.

Luther escaped the counterfeit church and the counterfeit church and those who never met Luther are still in a tizzy about it. Yet, they are calling back those who left!! LOL!!! Fork tongue!

71 posted on 08/22/2013 10:46:10 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Morgana; presently no screen name
Oh please! This cherry-picked excerpt has been disputed so many times here I'm surprised it had to be trotted out so soon. Must mean the arguments are hitting home. What do you think I could prove by picking apart the encyclicals or sermons of your Popes? How about the recent foofaraw over Pope Francis saying he "wouldn't judge homosexual clergy"? I'd rather be honest and discuss their comments in their context and prove them wrong by Holy Scripture - that really is the better tack, don't you think?

JFTR - should anyone actually BUY your opinion of what you think Luther was saying, here is a link to judge the man by what he actually said and not what one wishes he did in order to condemn him http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/search?q=sin+boldly. I challenge you to read it and stop making yourself look desperate.

72 posted on 08/22/2013 10:46:22 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Morgana; presently no screen name

Luther explains the concept of “sinning boldly”:

““Therefore let us arm our hearts with these and similar statements of Scripture so that, when the devil accuses us by saying: You are a sinner; therefore you are damned, we can reply: The very fact that you say I am a sinner makes me want to be just and saved. Nay, you will be damned, says the devil. Indeed not, I reply, for I take refuge in Christ, who gave Himself for my sins. Therefore you will accomplish nothing, Satan, by trying to frighten me by setting the greatness of my sins before me and thus seducing me to sadness, doubt, despair, hatred, contempt, and blasphemy of God. Indeed, by calling me a sinner you are supplying me with weapons against yourself so that I can slay and destroy you with your own sword; for Christ died for sinners. Furthermore, you yourself proclaim the glory of God to me; you remind me of God’s paternal love for me, a miserable and lost sinner; for He so loved the world that He gave His Son (John 3:16). Again, whenever you throw up to me that I am a sinner, you revive in my memory the blessing of Christ, my Redeemer, on whose shoulders, and not on mine, lie all my sins; for “the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all” and “for the transgression of His people was He stricken” (Is. 53:6-8). Therefore when you throw up to me that I am a sinner, you are not terrifying me; you are comforting me beyond measure.””

Luther explains why those who do willful sins in this life are damned, whereas those who have been justified produce good works.

““Works only reveal faith, just as fruits only show the tree, whether it is a good tree. I say, therefore, that works justify, that is, they show that we have been justified, just as his fruits show that a man is a Christian and believes in Christ, since he does not have a feigned faith and life before men. For the works indicate whether I have faith. I conclude, therefore, that he is righteous, when I see that he does good works. In God’s eyes that distinction is not necessary, for he is not deceived by hypocrisy. But it is necessary among men, so that they may correctly understand where faith is and where it is not. As Paul says, we ought not to trust a faith which is false, as when someone believes he is a part of the church although he meanwhile still whores [I Cor. 5:11]. In this I see that he is not a good tree and when he glories saying, “I am a part,” I can argue against him, “You are not part of the church, because your works are evil.” Therefore, those works are also evidence to himself and to others about him whether he has the true faith. For those who glory that they are Christians and do not show this faith by such works, as this sinful woman does, but persist up to the present and live in open sins, in whoring and adultery, are not Christians at all. For the Christian shows his life and that he has been made a Christian by love and good works and flees all vices. We should not be a part of the church in number only, as the hypocrites, but also by our works, so that our heavenly Father may be glorified. Love merits forgiveness of sins, that is, love reveals that his sins have been forgiven.”

http://tquid.sharpens.org/sin_boldly.htm#a2

What Luther is arguing is not that we go and live lawless lives. He is saying to throw our sins in the face of Satan, since by the very fact that we are sinners shows we are in need of a saviour, and therefore must not live in fear of Satan who accuses us and emphasizes our imperfections, as Christ’s work on the cross is infinite to wash away even the most heinous sins. He does use a lot of hyperbole, but that’s standard Luther.

As for how Luther died, he suffered severe health problems for the last years of his life. Nothing to do with sloth and gluttony. Though there have been Popes who have died like that, some of them in bed with other men’s wives too.


80 posted on 08/22/2013 11:39:25 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Morgana
He died of sloth and gluttony. Some saint.

He died at 62, worked the last week of his life, was a prodigious writer, not bad for the 16th century. And what a saint he was, like all believers in Christ.

277 posted on 08/24/2013 12:23:07 PM PDT by xone
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