Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance
Posted on 08/27/2013 11:53:37 AM PDT by NYer
Megachurch. Two young ladies. Both had left the Catholic Church. Both were now attending “megachurches.” We had a good chat together. I wanted to understand their reasons for why they left the Catholic Church for a megachurch.
Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance
I was at the bank and somehow I got into a spiritual conversation with two Hispanic executives that worked there.
When I asked why they exchanged the Catholic Church for the megachurch, they gave me a number of reasons:
Although these two ladies didn’t articulate it explicitly to me, I could tell that they were very proud of their new churches. I could also discern in them a surprise that I am so “spiritual” and yet I am very excited about being Catholic. They assumed the “with it” people were leaving Catholicism for the bigger and better and deal.
I asked them what they miss about being Catholic. They replied with two answers:
I asked both about the Eucharist: “Don’t you miss the Eucharist?”
This question didn’t phase them one bit. “Oh we still have communion. They pass out little crackers and cups of juice. I like this better because I thought drinking from one big cup is icky. Spreads germs.”
“But in the Catholic Church,” I replied, “we believe that the Eucharist is the real Body and Blood of Jesus?”
I may as well have said, “Don’t you know that there are Martians in my back pocket.” She was unaware that the Catholic Church taught this. No idea.
This, my brothers and sisters, is the crux of the problem. These girls were raised as Catholics, but did not know about the Eucharist. They did not know that the Eucharist is God. They did not understand the Holy Eucharist is the center of the Catholic tradition.
So when they compare our ho-hum Catholic music and pedestrian sermons to snazzy well produced musical productions and highly polished bulleted sermons from handsome professional speakers…where are they going to go?
If they had believed that the Holy Eucharist is truly the Lord Jesus Christ, then they would have stayed. This is the task of the New Evangelization if there is going to be one. Can we communicate the mystery of Eucharist. If we fail in that, everyone is leaving the building.
Godspeed,
Taylor
PS: I don’t mean to suggest that having the Holy Eucharist is an excuse for bad music, bad vestments, bad architecture, and bad sermons. The Eucharist is like a precious diamond. It deserves a platinum setting…not a plastic setting. We can’t say, “Well, we have the Eucharist – so you’re forced to stay and have a miserable experience every Sunday.” We can’t keep the sacraments hostage to mediocracy.
PPS: With 1 billion strong, the Catholic Church is the real megachurch!
Pope Francis at Rio de Janeiro
3 million people
What’s all the fuss about Mother Mary? Wonderful woman, but what does she have to do with my salvation?
Ann Barnhardt calls them "Super-fun Rock Band" churches ... though she'd probably apply that label to more than a few Catholic churches, too.
Not sure if he preaches it but he sure lives it ...
After move to $10.5 million River Oaks mansion, Joel Osteen offers Tanglewood land for $1.1 million
Mary, was the virgin chosen by God to bear the Savior.
From that point, Jesus did the saving.
Apologies for not including in my ping to post #103 ... Brace yourself!
Joel Osteen church is very new agey if you really think about it
I read one book about spiritual life in 21th Century AMerica he talk about don’t be judgementl accept anybody
Beside he was once confort about Oprah about Christian views on gays he got run over the coals by her
“Er... friend, nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Bible is to be the only source of salvific truth.”
What other source has salvific truth that is not found in the Scriptures, but is necessary for salvation? What is that non-Scriptural truth that is necessary?
Where did you read that i said i can sacrifice the Son?
I said that that was what the Mass is. I also said it was the One Sacrifice. I even capitalized the words.
The Sacrifice is One. I can participate in the offering during Mass.
To not understand Mary’s role is to not understand the Incarnation.
God uses humanity to lift up humanity.
To think it all plays out without humanity freely choosing to assist is to make a mockery of existence.
We are creatures made to choose to love God, not actors on his stage, his GI Joe and Barbie dolls.
" . . . Catholics ask Mary to do only what God has the power to do?"
Only God can pray to God?
That's what you're saying and it's just plain stupid.
Jesus Christ told us to pray and we're told to pray for one another. The real issue is whether or not someone believes Jesus Christ was telling a lie when He said He is God of the living not of the dead.
People who have no life in them always end up directly contradicting Jesus Christ, though, so we understand. We'll pray for you and ask Mary to pray for you as well.
A reasonable question! Let me sketch out a little background for this, in hope this will help.
If you want examples of adoration ---- what the Catholic Church calls latria, “the kind of supreme honor due to God alone” --- look at a prayer from the Mass called the Gloria:
Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace to people of good will.
We praise you, we bless you,
we adore you, we glorify you,
we give you thanks,
for your great glory,
Lord God, heavenly King,
O God, almighty Father.
Lord Jesus Christ,
Only Begotten Son,
Lord God, Lamb of God,
Son of the Father,
you take away the sins of the world,
have mercy on us;
you take away the sins of the world, receive our prayer;
you are seated at the right hand of the Father:
have mercy on us.
For you alone are the Holy One,
you alone are the Lord,
you alone are the Most High, Jesus Christ,
with the Holy Spirit,
in the glory of God the Father.
Amen.
What strikes you is the absolute quality of the honor being given to God. This is what can only be given to the Creator, Ruler, Savior, Enlightener, absolute Judge of all.
Any other form of honor, properly given to a lesser being, whether angelic or human, is called dulia.
The gestures of “dulia” have varied across cultures and across the centuries. For instance, one might think that bowing to the ground is a sure sign of adoration being given. However, this is not the case according to the Bible.
Look up "kneel(ing)" and "bow(ing)" in the good old BibleGateway Keyword Search, and you’ll find so many references it would be exhausting to list them all.
• Moses bows down to father-in-law; Ruth bows down to Boaz; David prostrates before Jonathan; David prostrates to Saul; Abigail prostrates to David; Saul prostrates to Samuel; Nathan prostrates to David; Obadiah bows to the ground before Elijah; the prophets in Jericho bow before Elisha; the "whole assembly" bows low and prostrates before David; David bows toward the Temple; David prostrates toward Jerusalem; God causes the king's adversaries to bow prostrate on the ground and "lick the dust at his feet"; the sons of the oppressors will bow to Zion. And that’s not even the half of it!
OK, pretty obviously the patriarchs, prophets, and kings knew about the commandment not to bow down and worship anything or anybody but God. But here they are bowing, kneeling, and prostrating, and God is not offended. Why?
Because the commandment clearly forbids bowing and worshipping a creature as the Creator; it does not forbid kneeling or bowing (to king, prophet, father, husband or brother) as a form of honor. The commandment does not prohibit kneeling or bowing to give human honor. It prohibits adoration toward anyone but Almighty God.
It’s had to take in the whole scope of it. I hope this furnishes a good beginning.
and tell me if you think gestures like kneeling and prostration always indicate idolatry -- from a Biblical point of view.
Don’t they know that drinking from the one cup first of all is not necessary for the Body and Blood of Christ are both in the consecrated host? And secondly, it is no longer wine, it is the Blood of Jesus Christ and I am protected when I drink from the cup?
Some may disagree, but that’s my opinion.
What do you think Catholics ask Mary to do for them?
Let’s start with your level of knowledge, first.
Catholics worship only God. What’s the point in these pictures?
The hail mary comes from the gospel of Luke spoken by the angel Gabriel...and the “scenes” depicted when praying the rosary are the life of Christ...
either educate your ignorance or cease telling lies.
Serious question for you, Mrs. Don-o. I find hundreds of Marian prayers on-line, but when I search for prayers to Jesus Christ, mostly all I find (Catholic.org was a major source) are prayers “to the ‘sacred heart’ of Jesus.” What the heck is this about?
I also found one “to the Infant Jesus.” But none directed directly to Jesus. Why the indirect praying?
That’s not what I read from the Pew Religion and Public Life survey. They say the number of Catholics has been dropping for decades, and that at this point those coming from Mexico to the US are 70% Catholic. But your stats may vary. Your source?
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