Pope Francis tells atheists to abide by their own consciences

guardian ^ | 11 September 2013 | Lizzie Davies

[armydoc]

As letters to the editor go, it was certainly out of the ordinary, stretching to more than 2,500 words and not one of them veering on the irate or indignant. But the missive received by Eugenio Scalfari, co-founder and former editor of the Italian newspaper La Repubblica, nonetheless made it into print on Wednesday – on the front page and under the impressively brief byline of "Francesco".

Sorry, Guardian articles must be excerpted

[armydoc]

I was thinkng that this provides cover for Kerry and Pelosi. It is also in line with Obama’s statement that he believe sin is when “I violate my own conscience.” This belief devalues Jesus’s death on the cross, as now there is no absolute sin or sinner in need of redemption. Apostasy on display.

Indeed. I have always been appreciative of the CC's stand on abortion. I had been hoping their slow response to prominent pro-aborts such as Kerry et al was a reflection of prudence and timing. Now, with the Pope's declaration regarding the supremacy of conscience, it's Katy Bar the Door. I would imagine the faithful parish Priest who is striving against a significant population of "clean-conscience" pro-aborts in his congregation will get this thrown in his face.

[Boogieman]

Yes, but your catechism, and the Bible verse you cite, only apply to those who have never had the opportunity to hear the gospel. So, if the question was about God saving people on some remote island with no contact with the outside world, the answer would be find. When the question is about atheists who have already heard the Gospel and rejected it, the answer is absolutely incorrect.

[GeronL]

The Church of Your Conscience is open for business

This is disturbing

[knittnmom]

Those who do not seek to believe should not even be asking if God forgives them. To ask implies that they are seeking to believe. His Excellency, the Pope, kind of ducked the question and answered from another angle, IMO.

[dragonblustar]

This is the gospel of Jiminy Cricket.

[GeronL]

lol.

Good one.

[svcw]

He ducked nothing, he said you do not have to be a believer to get into heaven - that is clear.
In essence he is teaching all paths lead to God, ans he is wrong.

[svcw]

funny

[bkaycee]

I think maybe the sedavacantists will be expanding their ranks?

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved."

Armydoc, I don't see how it could apply to Pelosi and other apostate Catholics at all. It is clearly intended for those who (1) have not heard the Gospel but (2) do the will of God as they understand it. Neither of these apply to Nancy Pelosi or any apostate Catholic.

Look, Pelosi went to Catholic Schools for 16 years. She has heard the Gospel proclaimed to her thousands of times. Whatever she may think about the "will of (g)od," she cannot possibly mean the same God proclaimed by the Catholic Church.

It's frighteningly probable that she, Kerry, Cuomo and the rest, know the Master's will but do not do it. Such persons, Jesus says, are like the stewards who screwed up though they were actually aware of what they should have been doing. When the Master comes back, they will get even "more stripes" (punitive lashing) because they knew better.

[jboot]

It helps to understand that one is dealing with a member if "the elect". The idea that God's mercy might be spread a little wider than their exclusive group causes them some consternation.

I see that by way of a response you got my first reply to your ungracious strawman comment pulled. How very clever and thoughtful of you. But my question still stands. The Pope has seemingly implied that it is possible for an individual who openly disbelieves in God and His Christ to enter a state of grace. Can anyone explain how the Pope's comments should be rightly interpreted?

This is the only thread on FR where this is being discussed, and although it is not a caucus thread it is being treated like one. Apparently no one wants to go near this topic with a 10-foot pole. That is too bad.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I have no problem saying that an atheist who dies in his atheism faces an eternal judgment in hell. In fact, it's almost a tautology. Hell is by definition a place where God is excluded by an alien will. God is excluded, therefore love, therefore the source of life and light, therefore all truth, goodness and beauty --- it's all excluded by a perverse obstinacy.

That's hell.

There are people walking this same earth with us who live in torment in a hell of horrors already within the confines of their minds. They have not "lost" their way. They have rejected the Way.

[bkaycee]

I think Popes can say or do whatever they want as long as its “Ex Cathedra”.

[svcw]

I had Know idea what that word was, so looked it up and still do not know.
Are you able to explain it?

[armydoc]

There are people walking this same earth with us who live in torment in a hell of horrors already within the confines of their minds. They have not "lost" their way. They have rejected the Way.

And many who reject "The Way" feel no such torment; their consciences are perfectly clear. The Pope would have us believe that God will honor their conviction of conscience with boundless mercy.

[bkaycee]

I believe Sedavacantists are usually very traditional Catholics who believe the present popes are not legit.

It could be that some believe Popes after Vatican II were bogus.

[svcw]

Oh. You were much easier to understand than my search.

[jboot]

After Francis I's "who am I to judge" comments back in July I assumed that he was simply misunderstood. Those comments were also Ex Cathedra. And yes, such utterances generally get a pass for that exact reason.

I think he needs to get a little less chatty when he gives interviews. These sort of comments beget controversies that help no one, Catholic or Protestant.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

I’m going to sort these blaspemies out later in great detail, snapping that pole. It seems even the FRomans are a kind of universalist. I’m not at home though, so I can’t right now.

[ansel12]

I had been hoping their slow response to prominent pro-aborts such as Kerry et al was a reflection of prudence and timing.

They respond, Nancy Pelosi just personally met her new Pope, and received communion at the Vatican.

Here the Catholic church is responding to the loss of their beloved Ted Kennedy by burying him in a manner that the common Catholics cannot help but notice, and which reinforces their support for the pro-abortion democrat party.