It’s Biblical to Ask Saints to Pray for Us

Ignitum Today ^ | 15 September 2013 | Matthew Olson

[matthewrobertolson]

(This was originally shared here on AnsweringProtestants.com, as part of a longer post.)

There is nothing wrong with asking the heavenly saints to pray for us.

Many Protestants argue that asking the saints to pray for us is “unbiblical,” while throwing around verses like 1 Timothy 2:5. But they are incorrect.

1 Timothy 2:5 — the infamous “one mediator between God and men” verse — refers to salvation, not prayer. The verse reminds us that it is only because of the graces found through Christ (God Himself) that we are able to have any real relationship with God and reach Heaven. It does not, however, absolutely negate relations with angels or heavenly saints. After all, it was an angel (Gabriel) that spoke to Mary before Christ was conceived in her body, not God Himself.

I was raised in several Protestant denominations. They all placed a major emphasis on Christians praying for each other — which is encouraged in 1 Timothy 2:1-4 and other passages. I would contend that a saint, one who is holy and in Heaven with God, would have a lot more sway with God than a rebellious sinner on earth would.

To put that another way, if someone asked you to do something for them, would you not be more likely to help them if they were your best friend, as opposed to a complete stranger? Of course, you may very well be willing to do something for a complete stranger, but you would probably be more willing to do something for your best friend.

And there is evidence in the Bible of the saints praying to God.

“Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a golden censer; and much incense was given to him, so that he might add it to the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, went up before God out of the angel’s hand.” – Revelation 8:3-4

The word for “saints” in that passage comes from the Greek word hagios. Thayer’s New Testament Greek-English Lexicon says that the best definition of hagios is “most holy thing, a saint”. This would seem to undermine the Protestant assertion that “saints” in this context can only refer to people on earth.

Now, what would the saints be praying for? Themselves? Doubtful. They are in Heaven, so they do not need anything, as eternal life with God is perfect. That really only leaves one option: they are praying for us. And because they are praying for us anyway, how could it be wrong to ask them to pray for us about something specific? It is like interacting with a DJ at an event. He’s playing music anyway, so what is the harm in asking him to play your favorite song?

Here’s my Scripture-based defense of the practice that should answer most Protestant objections:

Matthew 17:3-4 & Luke 9:28-31.
Moses and Elijah (who are clearly heavenly saints, not “saints” in the way Paul would sometimes use the word) are with Christ during the Transfiguration.

Revelation 6:9-11.
The martyrs can talk to God.

From those three passages, we can gather that the saints in Heaven interact with God.

Luke 15:10.
The angels and saints (who, in Luke 20:35-36, Christ says are equal to the angels) are aware of earthly events.

1 Timothy 2:1 & James 5:16.
It is good for Christians to pray for one another.

Now, if the saints interact with God and are aware of earthly events (and can therefore hear us), why wouldn’t they pray for us, considering that it is good for Christians (which the angels and saints definitely are) to pray for one another?

Revelation 21:27.
Nothing imperfect will enter into Heaven.

Psalm 66:18 & James 5:16.
God ignores the prayers of the wicked, and the prayers of the righteous are effective.

Because the saints have reached perfection (they are in Heaven), their prayers are more effective than the prayers of those that are less righteous, so that’s why one might ask them to pray instead of asking another Christian on earth or simply doing it themselves.

(All verses are from the NASB translation.)

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[Hegewisch Dupa]

great acknowledgement of the eternal soul there

[WilliamIII]

Any essay that starts out by describing a Biblical, apostolical passage as “infamous” loses me right away.

[matthewrobertolson]

First, God is of the living, not of the dead.
“Now He is not the God of the dead but of the living; for all live to Him.” - Luke 20:38 (NASB)

Second, how do you know that I’m “twisting [the] words” of the Bible? How is your interpretation any better than the traditional Christian position that’s been around for about 2,000 years? Unless you can definitively disprove my position, please refrain from saying that it is “not biblical.”

[matthewrobertolson]

The passage itself is not “infamous,” but the way Protestants frequently use it (at least in this context) certainly is.

[matthewrobertolson]

*So the soul is eternal. The heavenly saints are alive and conscious.

[will of the people]

Unless you can definitively disprove my position, please refrain from saying that it is “not biblical.”

so- praying to maple syrup is Biblical?
you can’t disprove it

one does not have to disprove an assertion to say it is extra or contra Biblical

and theses assertions only go back 17-1800 years

they are referenced in some of the ‘church father’s’ writings- not scripture

[matthewrobertolson]

I’d appreciate it if you didn’t use strawmen. Your use of them helps no one. Obviously, I am not proposing that we all pray to maple syrup.

When I asked the commenter to “definitively disprove my position,” I meant that they should disprove it by proving that it truly is in some way “extra” (which could most easily be done through the traditional, historical testimony, if my position were somehow indeed false) or “contra” (which could be done simply by using the Bible itself).

[DungeonMaster]

Where does anyone in the bible ask a dead person to pray for them?

Catholic response: They're not dead.

Catholics don't care enough about the bible to discuss whether RC beliefs are biblical or not.

[will of the people]

here’s a recap of your argument which you ignored

hence the strawmen

so. .
if we determine that ‘saints’ means dead Christians despite the way Paul uses it (in scripture)
and we see that they pray to God
and we impose upon them what they are praying about
we can therefore claim it is scriptural to pray TO them

that’s extra and contra scriptural

and i didn’t even mention maple syrup

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Discussed a hundred times on FR.

Not commanded in Holy Scripture
Not shown in Holy Scripture
Not taught in Holy Scripture
Not recorded at time of Apostles anywhere
Not seen in secular sources at time
Not recorded in sacred art at time

Total silence.

Hundreds of years later, this pagan custom emerges.

[mlizzy]

It is rare that a day has gone by (since 1984 when I converted from Luther), that I haven't requested the intercessory prayers of the saints.

I also believe that I've met three saints on earth. One was Mother Teresa of Calcutta, who is now a blessed, and working her way to sainthood. Another was a woman I met on Facebook (yes, I believe saints can be anywhere:)), who we then met personally by mere "chance," and who has recently passed away [lung cancer], a wife and mother of eight gorgeous young children. I ask her intercession frequently. Then there was a friend of my sister's (another young wife and mother) who decades ago, passed away from complications due to brain cancer; her rosary in her coffin turned gold. The priest officiating said he had a vision, and saw Diane in heaven, while he was driving home from her wake.

Leon Bloy once wrote:

The only real sadness, the only real failure, the only great tragedy in life, is not to become a saint.

[CincyRichieRich]

I will not refrain. Your premise is bunk. We do not pray to dead Christians. Sorry if you disagree.

[matthewrobertolson]

1. That’s a semantic argument. You’re just nit-picking about the usual word choice. They are “saints” because they are in the Communion of Saints — which includes both the earthly and the heavenly.

2. It’s clear that they do, if you look at everything in context. They are in awe of God, and constantly pray to and give honor to Him.

3. We’re not “imposing” on them. They’re already praying, anyway. If you were sitting in a room, praying, and someone came in and asked you to pray for them, would you refuse their request? I would think not, and I don’t think the saints would, either.

[Jack Hydrazine]

Gandhi is a saint in the Catholic church. Saw a painting of him posted on the wall in the main sanctuary of one a long time ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ega5Rcct2s

[Salvation]

Mk 9:4 - Jesus seen
conversing with Elijah & Moses
Lk 9:31 - Elijah & Moses aware of earthly events
Rev 6:9-11 - martyrs under
altar want earthly vindication
Heb 12:1 - we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses
Lk 16:19-30 - departed rich
man intercedes for brothers
Rev 20:4 - saw the souls of
those who had been beheaded
Wis 3:1-6 - the souls of the just are in the hand of God
2Macc 15:7-16 – the departed Onias & Jeremiah pray for the Jews
Jas 5:16 Prayers of righteous man
1 Cor. 13:12 - I shall
understand fully
1 John 4: 20-21 whoever loves God must love his brother
1Tim 2:1-7 - offer prayers, petitions for all men

[matthewrobertolson]

That’s beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. May God bless you! :)

[ealgeone]

I would take issue with only defining saints as one who is holy and in Heaven. The greek word, αγιος, is an adjective and defined as set apart by, or for, God, holy sacred. (Strongs) The particular version of saints in that passage is αγιων, which is in the genitve plural..meaning "of the saints" in referring to their prayers. In other words, the prayers of the saints. This could mean saints here on earth or those saints who have gone home to be with the Lord as is the case in Revelation. In Revelation, this is referring to those saints who have gone on the be with the Lord. There are several other passages in Revelation where the great multitudes are before the Throne of God. Who else are these, but the saints. The same word is used by Paul for saints in Rome, Corinth and Ephesus as is used in Revelation There isn't any difference, at least from a Biblical perspective, on these saints and the ones in Heaven. So what is different about Moses and Elijah in terms of saints compared to saints on earth? Only that they have died and have gone to Heaven. Rev 9:28-31 That the martyrs can talk with God doesn't mean we can talk with them...or they with us. By your logic, if we can talk with them, they should be able to converse with us. Luke 15:10 there is nothing in Luke 15:10 regarding saints. It only references angels. Luke 20:35-36 this refers to those who are like angels and are the sons of God. the word for angels can be translated as equal to or like the angels. I find nothing in these two verses that suggests they are aware of earthly events. 1 Timothy 2:1 and James 5:16 I agree it is good for Christians to pray for each other. However, I think your logic overreaches and falls apart on your conjecture. If, and I mean if, we could pray to the fellow saints in Heaven why does James say to call on the elders of the church to pray over them if sick? When Jesus taught the disciples to pray it was to pray to Our Father who is in Heaven. Paul tells us in Romans that both the Holy Spirit and Jesus are praying for us. In the case of the Holy Spirit, He prays with words and groanings we can't understand. When Stephen was being stoned he cried out to only Jesus. In the OT, the prophets and others prayed to God. Jesus only prayed to the Father.

[tbpiper]

If we have been given direct access the throne of Gog,given permission to call Him "Abba Father", and commanded to cast all our cares on Him, why would we want to waste the time talking to someone of lesser spiritual stature? Is God too busy to hear all our prayers that He has to delegate that out? And then too, are these 'saints' to whom we pray omniscient in that they can hear each and every prayer that is prayed to them?

Prayer is the highest form of worship and nobody, deserves worship but God alone.

[gitmo]

I cannot recall anyone claiming to be a Chriatian ever referring to a scripture verse as “infamous” before.

[RginTN]

Where is the verse which says believers can pray to saints???

the verses cited don’t back up the thread claim.
You have to imply they do.