John 6:53 - Unless you eat My flesh

I don’t see any difference. The line is still through Joseph.

<...”Few things confirm me in my atheism more than threads like this one”....>

When ‘truth is sought’ in any area of science, religion etc. there is always great and often heated debate...as there needs be. The internet is full of such.

But for those who have no interest in truth then one might ask what it is that’s attracting them to the debate?

At any rate...when debate is silenced then truth is never discovered....which of course is the intentions of those who have neither sought nor cared to inquire of such, ....easier to sit on the sidelines as a spectator.

You are great at cutting and pasting, but you say little. I have asked for the biblical basis for your hope of salvation more than once but you merely cut and paste propaganda in response. Are you real? Do you know what YOU believe? Or are you here merely to propagate Roman Catholicism?

I am a Catholic. Why should I consider becoming a Christian?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-Christian.html

What is Roman Catholicism?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Roman-Catholicism.html

Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?
http://www.gotquestions.org/salvation-faith-alone.html

What is sola scriptura?
http://www.gotquestions.org/sola-scriptura.html

Is Catholicism a false religion? Are Catholics saved?
http://www.gotquestions.org/catholicism.html

Are Catholic beliefs and practices biblical?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-Biblical.html

What is the origin of the Catholic Church?
http://www.gotquestions.org/origin-Catholic-church.html

What is the Catholic Bible?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-Bible.html

What does the Bible say about the virgin Mary?
http://www.gotquestions.org/virgin-Mary.html

What is the Catholic sacrament of Holy Eucharist? What is the Catholic definition of celebrating Holy Eucharist?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Eucharist.html

What is the immaculate conception?
http://www.gotquestions.org/immaculate-conception.html

Is prayer to saints or Mary biblical?
http://www.gotquestions.org/prayer-saints-Mary.html

Is worship of saints / Mary biblical?
http://www.gotquestions.org/worship-saints-Mary.html

What are the Apocrypha / Deuterocanonical books? Do the Apocryphal / Deuterocanonical books belong in the Bible?
http://www.gotquestions.org/apocrypha-deuterocanonical.html

What is transubstantiation?
http://www.gotquestions.org/transubstantiation.html

Is apostolic succession biblical?
http://www.gotquestions.org/apostolic-succession.html

Is praying the rosary Scriptural?
http://www.gotquestions.org/praying-rosary.html

Are the seven Catholic sacraments biblical?
http://www.gotquestions.org/seven-Catholic-sacraments.html

Should Catholic tradition have equal or greater authority than the Bible?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-tradition.html

What does the Bible say about the pope / papacy?
http://www.gotquestions.org/pope-papacy.html

What does the Bible say about confession of sin to a priest?
http://www.gotquestions.org/confession-sin-priest.html

What does the Bible say about infant baptism?
http://www.gotquestions.org/infant-baptism.html

What was the first / original church? Is the original / first church the true church?
http://www.gotquestions.org/original-church.html

What was the Protestant Reformation?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Protestant-Reformation.html

Is the pope, or the next pope, the antichrist?
http://www.gotquestions.org/pope-antichrist.html

What is the whore of Babylon / mystery Babylon?
http://www.gotquestions.org/whore-Babylon-mystery.html

What are Christian saints according to the Bible?
http://www.gotquestions.org/saints-Christian.html

What is the Apostles’ Creed?
http://www.gotquestions.org/apostles-creed.html

What does the Bible say about purgatory?
http://www.gotquestions.org/purgatory.html

What is moral theology?
http://www.gotquestions.org/moral-theology.html

What is the rock in Matthew 16:18?
http://www.gotquestions.org/upon-this-rock.html

Is the priesthood of all believers biblical?
http://www.gotquestions.org/priesthood-believers.html

What is extreme unction?
http://www.gotquestions.org/extreme-unction.html

Was Saint Peter the first Pope?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Peter-first-pope.html

Is the perpetual virginity of Mary biblical?
http://www.gotquestions.org/perpetual-virginity-Mary.html

What is the Eastern Orthodox Church and what are the beliefs of Orthodox Christians?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Eastern-Orthodox-church.html

What was the Great Schism?
http://www.gotquestions.org/great-schism.html

What are indulgences and plenary indulgences and is the concept biblical?
http://www.gotquestions.org/plenary-indulgences.html

Is papal infallibility biblical?
http://www.gotquestions.org/papal-infallibility.html

Catholic vs. Protestant - why is there so much animosity?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-vs-Protestant.html

What is the difference between Catholics and Protestants?
http://www.gotquestions.org/difference-Catholic-Protestant.html

What does the Bible say about liturgy? Should a Christian participate in liturgical worship?
http://www.gotquestions.org/liturgy-liturgical.html

Does the Bible teach mortal and venial sin?
http://www.gotquestions.org/mortal-sin-venial.html

Are apparitions of Mary, such as Lady Fatima, true messages from God?
http://www.gotquestions.org/lady-fatima.html

Does the Bible support the Catholic practice of a marriage annulment?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-annulment.html

Is the Catholic concept of a nun biblical?
http://www.gotquestions.org/nuns-Catholic.html

What were the Inquisitions?
http://www.gotquestions.org/inquisitions.html

What does the Bible say about holy water?
http://www.gotquestions.org/holy-water.html

What is the Assumption of Mary?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Assumption-Mary.html

Sign of the cross - what is the meaning? Should Christians perform the sign of the cross?
http://www.gotquestions.org/sign-of-the-cross.html

Is the Pope the Vicar of Christ?
http://www.gotquestions.org/vicar-of-Christ.html

What does the Bible say about Limbo?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Limbo-Bible.html

What does the Bible say about being a God-parent?
http://www.gotquestions.org/God-parent.html

Does the Bible teach the celibacy of priests?
http://www.gotquestions.org/celibacy-priests.html

What is sacerdotalism?
http://www.gotquestions.org/sacerdotalism.html

Which of the 30,000 Protestant denominations is the true church of God?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Protestant-denominations.html

Who is the Queen of Heaven?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Queen-of-Heaven.html

Is the observance of a first communion biblical?
http://www.gotquestions.org/first-communion.html

What is the correct interpretation of John 20:23?
http://www.gotquestions.org/John-20-23.html

What is the cause of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-abuse.html

What is the Holy See?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-See.html

Who are the Jesuits, and what do they believe?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesuits.html

What is iconoclasm?
http://www.gotquestions.org/iconoclasm.html

Do eucharistic miracles really happen?
http://www.gotquestions.org/eucharistic-miracles.html

Is it wrong for Catholics to refer to their priests as “father”?
http://www.gotquestions.org/father-Matthew-23-9.html

What is the meaning/definition of the word Catholic?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-meaning-definition.html

What happened at the Council of Trent?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Council-of-Trent.html

What is the Hail Mary that Catholics say so often?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Hail-Mary.html

What is the Vatican / Vatican City?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Vatican-City.html

What is the Catholic catechism?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-catechism.html

Is the Catholic concept of absolution biblical?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-absolution.html

Why is the real presence of Christ in the Lord’s Supper such a controversial issue?
http://www.gotquestions.org/real-presence.html

What is beatification and canonization and are they biblical?
http://www.gotquestions.org/beatification.html

What is a novena?
http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-a-novena.html

Is penance mentioned in the Bible?
http://www.gotquestions.org/penance-Bible.html

What was the Holy Roman Empire?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Roman-Empire.html

Do Catholics worship idols / practice idolatry?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-idolatry.html

What is a papal conclave?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-idolatry.html

Is Mary the mother of God?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Mary-mother-God-theotokos.html

Is Mary the co-redemptrix / mediatrix?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Mary-redemptrix-mediatrix.html

How are Catholics able to perform exorcisms if many of their beliefs are unbiblical?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-exorcisms.html

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“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8-9 Did the apostles teach the assumption and veneration of Mary?

>> Please make your case that we need to make our case using the Bible.<<

Because we know that it’s inspired by the Holy Spirit, is infallible, and has not contradictions or errors. Now, you may need to tell us which of the following positions of the RCC are the infallible ones and inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam: “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” — Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam (Promulgated November 18, 1302) http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/b8-unam.html

St. Thomas Aquinas: It is also shown that to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is necessary for salvation. St. Thomas Aquinas, Against the Errors of the Greeks, Pt. 2, ch. 36 http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraErrGraecorum.htm#b38

…that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino, Bull promulgated on February 4, 1441 (Florentine style), proclaimed “ex cathedra” (infallible).

The Holy Catholic Church teaches that God cannot be adored except within her fold; she affirms that all those who are separated from her will not be saved. (Pope St. Gregory the Great, “Moralia,” XIV:5)

Neither the true Faith nor eternal salvation is to be found outside the Holy Catholic Church. It is a SIN to believe that there is salvation outside the Catholic Church. (Ven. Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quidem, March 17, 1856; cf. also OUR GLORIOUS POPES, Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, Cambridge, MA: 1955, p.168)

Then a change,

RCC: 846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?[335] Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:…Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.[336]

..there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (Cf. Jn. 16:13) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical [Protestant] communities…

They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood. — LUMEN GENTIUM: 16.

…those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church.” “All who have been justified by Faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ: they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.” — http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

RCC: 847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation.[337]

We can rely on the consistency of scripture. How about your RCC?

I’m wondering: Is there anyone here who hasn’t heard all these arguments at least twice?

In a thread only 50 replies long; too!

It must be proud of it's lineage.

Do NOT laugh!

It only encourages him.

Mrs. ELSIE

got MEGO?

Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam: “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

— Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam (Promulgated November 18, 1302) http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/b8-unam.html

NOW we know where the MORMONs got it from!!!!

What Joseph Smith Means to Us (From: various sources )

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

John 6:63 settles it once and for all for me. We all can create the Eucharist. When we give thanks for our food and share our table, we are fulfilling the command to “Do this in remembrance of me” in the way that it was truly intended. “My flesh is true food” ==> true food is my flesh, when we acknowledge where it came from and share it with others.

That works for me. I don’t want to discuss it. I’ve read all the arguments. I’m not trying to convince anybody

Eat the word John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Deuteronomy 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Ezek 3:1 Moreover he said unto me, Son of man, eat that thou findest; eat this scroll, and go speak unto the house of Israel. 2 So I opened my mouth, and he caused me to eat that scroll. 3 And he said unto me, Son of man, cause thy belly to eat, and fill thy bowels with this roll that I give thee. Then did I eat it; and it was in my mouth as honey for sweetness.

Jer 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

1 Corinthians 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Matthew 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

Eat and drink the word of God. Do Catholics eat the literal pages the scriptures are written on also?

Let’s look at what Jesus thought of physically ingesting his flesh and blood.

Matthew 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

>> How was Mary a virgin if Jesus’ line to David was through Joseph?<<

Both Mary and Joseph lead back to David.

a God who can so imperfectly communicate his word is no omnipotent being at all.

Let's imagine and explore the alternatives. Describe what you see as better than what is now.

To: Rashputin

Please don’t ping me again. I will return the favor.

1,891 posted on Friday, December 21, 2012 12:38:42 by CynicalBear

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People who cannot keep their word are by definition untrustworthy.

Wow! How many times do I need to tell you that I had to repent of that because scripture tells me to rebuke you?

Scripture here. Why should I need anything else?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3068018/posts?page=157#157

To: Rashputin

Please don’t ping me again. I will return the favor.

1,891 posted on Friday, December 21, 2012 12:38:42 by CynicalBear

==============================================

People who cannot keep their word are by definition untrustworthy.