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To: Rashputin; Dr. Thorne
someone who rejects Jesus Christ as their and instead relies on Rabbinical Pharisees to define their personal Self Alone substitute for Christianity.

Actually, while i do not know much of the faith of the 15 year FF veteran Dr. Thorne (though he sounds like a TRC like you), those who hold Scripture as supreme, versus sola ecclesia as you must (and cults typically effectively do), usually do affirm Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and supreme authority, as revealed most supremely in Scripture, versus the doctrine of the RCC.

And under Scripture, SS as historically understood does not make self the supreme authority any more than self in Romanism. Both claim an infallible supreme authority on earth, defining the truth of God, but both engage in interpretation of it.

A RC must rely on fallible human reasoning in order to make a decision to submit to Rome, and even then he must engage in interpretation as to which magisterial class multitudes of teaches fall into (there being no infallible list of such), and thus what level of submission is required, and if any and how much dissent is allowed. And even then varying degrees of interpretation are sometimes required as to its meaning. The present Popes interpretation versus that of TRCs examples that, and which is magnified on the corporate level within Romanism.

And as Ratzinger wrote in 1968:

Over the pope as the expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority, there still stands one's own conscience, which must be obeyed above all else, if necessary even against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority. This emphasis on the individual, whose conscience confronts him with a supreme and ultimate tribunal, and one which in the last resort is beyond the claim of external social groups, even of the official church, also establishes a principle in opposition to increasing totalitarianism. (http://www.ascensioncatholic.net/TOPICS/morality/ConscienceAndMoralDecisions.html)

In addition are the formal divisions within Catholicism, as well as btwn others who operate according to the Roman model (the church being the supreme, unquestionable authority). And thus under sola ecclesia you also have self deciding what the truth is and sects and divisions, the difference with SS mainly being a matter of scope.

such people worship their own, Most High and Holy Self because that's who they claim is superior to His Word; their Self and Self Alone.

Actually, you are again resorting to another RC straw man, while it is in Rome that we see Self Alone most supremely exampled, as the pope and an individual is set forth as possessing (conditional) assured infallibility, thus speaking as God, and unable to be reproved, which no believers under SS can claim. Instead, truth claims must be based upon the weight of Scriptural substantiation, which was how the church began, in word and in power, not under the premise of a perpetual infallible magisterium.

It is also in Rome that we see the Most High and Holy Self exampled as a particular church, as they effectively claim their Rome is superior to the Word of God, as only she can authoritatively define what it consists of and its meaning.

Moreover, it is Rome that is most like the Pharisees,

For the decision of their Scribes, or "Soferim" (Josephus, σοπισταί; N. T., γραμματεἴς), consisting originally of Aaronites, Levites, and common Israelites, they claimed the same authority as for the Biblical law, even in case of error (Sifre, Deut. 153-154); they endowed them with the power to abrogate the Law at times (see Abrogation of Laws), and they went so far as to say that he who transgressed their words deserved death (Ber. 4a). - http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12087-pharisees

Therefore faithful RCs are not to engage in objective examination of Scripture in order to ascertain the veracity of the doctrine of Rome, as the noble Bereans did, and under SS they are to do so, but the faithful RCs are bound to believe and blindly defend official RC teaching. As we see them doing here so often, and thus repulsing those who seek to be as the noble Bereans.

And rather exalting self as being little infallible popes, while rightly seeing claims of assured infallibility, as per Rome, as being unScriptural, Westminster upholds that,

It belongs to synods and councils, ministerially to determine controversies of faith, and cases of conscience; to set down rules and directions for the better ordering of the public worship of God, and government of his Church; to receive complaints in cases of maladministration, and authoritatively to determine the same; which decrees and determinations, if consonant to the Word of God, are to be received with reverence and submission; not only for their agreement with the Word, but also for the power whereby they are made, as being an ordinance of God appointed thereunto in His Word. — http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/wcf.htm

When someone only accepts the Anti-Christ Pharisee Approved Luther Subset of Scripture rather than the entire Bible

Actually, the Lord admonished the apostles to observe and do all that the scribes and the Pharisees asked of them, as they sat sit in Moses' seat, (Matthew 23:2-3) obviously except that which was contrary to Scripture, which He reproved them by. But never did the Lord censure them for their canon, while Lk. 24:44 best indicates the Lord referencing the Tripartite 22 book (=39) canon.

The Septuagint LXX with its variations and latter additions is a problematic reference for inclusion of the Apocrypha in the 1st cent. Scriptures, as has been shown in many previous debates here on this issue.

Meanwhile, Luther was not charged with denying the apocrypha, as he was not alone in this among Catholics, as there was not infallible, indisputable canon until after the death of Luther, but dissent continued thru the centuries and right into Trent. That is history .

87 posted on 09/20/2013 5:00:40 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212
Christ gave the keys to Peter therefore the Jews no longer had authority over Scripture and their changing the canon after that point in time makes no difference. Were that not the case nothing in the New Testament could be considered to be the Word or God without Jews who deny that Christ is God approving of it first.

If the canon is important Christ would have pointed out tat part of what was included in the Septuagint shouldn't be in it and since He didn't The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church Jesus Christ Himself founded was following Christ by keeping the Septuagint intact.

Of course, people who think nothing of throwing portions of the Word of God into the garbage make all kind of excuses for pleasing their Self but they can't hide from the fact that they're just pleasing their Self and Self Alone. In doing so elevate themselves above His Word exactly he same way Eve did when she relied on her Self.

90 posted on 09/20/2013 11:36:40 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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