John 3:3 απεκριθη ο ιησους και ειπεν αυτω αμην αμην λεγω σοι εαν μη τις γεννηθη ανωθεν ου δυναται ιδειν την βασιλειαν του θεου -1550 Stephanus New Testament
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Whomever translated the words born again was either ignorant or a deceiver.
I guess I missed a few things in Theology 101–302 and Greek 101–203 classes when I attended Bible college. Maybe I've just forgotten such things since I first went there in 1976 and now I'm older and getting stupid. But I can't help thinking that you have a strange understanding that is much different from what I learned. My professors and instructors were all spirit filled men, who imparted a clear understanding when they taught their subjects.
Nicodemus responded to Jesus. Jesus told him “you must be born again”. The word "again” can also be translated “by the Spirit”, but in the context of what is presented, it is commonly used to say “born again”. Not only does the NIV translate it that way, but the KJV, the 1599 Geneva Bible and the others on my shelf find that same translation, I do see in the complete Jewish Bible that they say it more fully as “born again from above”.
I think it's important to note everything in context. It was Nicodemus next words that clarify what Jesus was really saying. Nicodemus asked “"How can an old man go back into his mother's womb a second time,…”. That makes it pretty clear to me and my simple understanding. Jesus had indeed used terminology saying “born again”. Jesus was explaining the concept of being born from above by his Spirit, and yes, Though we could not receive the Holy Spirit until after the resurrection and ascension of Jesus, the Holy Spirit is eternal. The Holy Spirit is God's motive force.
So, ignorance and deception seem to be coming from a different source than everything that I have learned. Your posts seemed to be more along those lines. I cannot understand what you are trying to say with your descriptions of what you're thinking. It just doesn't translate…
How many lost souls said exactly that?
This is the description of who, what, where, when, and then comes the why of the message Christ decided to give him - us. And we can figure out this instruction was not given by the Pharisees.
John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, (in secret) and said unto Him, "Rabbi, we know that Thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that Thou doest, except God be with him."
Who is this 'we' that Nicodemus speaks of?
Christ knew what the Pharisees taught and believed. And the instruction Christ set about to give was not new. We can know this by John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born from above, (by Divine power) he cannot see the kingdom of God."
It seems that little study is done in what most Christians consider the 'old' done away with Testament, except for a verse here and there I will go to a New Testament verse to illustrate this instruction.
Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are *partakers of flesh and blood, He also likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
We know that 'life' in these flesh bodies begins at conception by the description given to us of Christ from Luke. We also know that there are a numbered fallen angels and only one named entity, the devil that will not be allowed to be born from above. They have already been judged to death.
What did the Pharisees, teach/believe?
John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"
Nicodemus did not understand what was said. Yet Nicodemus was born already from above when his soul/spirit intellect was placed in his mother's womb at conception.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
What happens at conception? Why the soul/spirit intellect sent by God is placed in the 'water' = womb.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh .... (Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust (flesh) return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it.) and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born from above.
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the spirit.
John 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto Him, "How can these things be?"
John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
John 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye received not our witness.
John 3:12 IF I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, IF I tell you of heavenly things?
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He That came down from heaven, even the Son of man Which is in heaven.
John 3:13 explains in the simple term what Christ told Nicodemus, who as a master of Israel should have already known.
When the flesh body dies it returns to the dust from which it came, but the soul/spirit intellect that came from God, returns to Him. The good the bad and the ugly! We can know this from the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.
We also know that only the devil is named and a numbered of fallen angels of Genesis 6 and Jude will not have opportunity to 'see' or 'enter' the kingdom of God.