MSM YESTERDAY:Francis said Church obsessed about abortion! TODAY: Pope talks about abortion!

WDTPRS ^ | September 20, 2013 | Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

[NYer]

You saw it all over the MSM yesterday.

FRANCIS CRITICIZES CHURCH FOR ABORTION OBSESSION!

And endless variations on the theme.

The MSM’s message: Pope Francis is saying that abortion really isn’t all that bad.

Today, however, I read in the Bolletino that Pope Francis addressed the International Federation of Catholic Medical Associations.

NB in my rapid translation and emphases:

A mentality of the useful, the “throw-away culture”, which today enslaves the hearts and minds of so many, has a very high cost: it requires the elimination of human beings, especially if they are physically or socially weaker. Our response to this mentality is a decisive “Yes” – and without any wavering – for life. “The first right of the human person is his life. He has other goods and some are more precious, but this one is fundamental – the condition of all the others.” (1974 CDF, Declaration on Procured Abortion, 11) Things have a price and they are saleable, but persons have a dignity, they are worth more than thanks and they are priceless. So often, we find ourselves in situations wherein we see that which costs the less is life. For this reason, attention to human life in its totality has become in recent times a true and fitting priority for the Magisterium of the Church, especially for the most defenseless, namely, the disabled, the sick, those about to born (al nascituro), the baby, the elderly, which is the most vulnerable life.

In the fragile human being each one of us is invited to recognize the face of the Lord, who in His human flesh experienced indifference, and the solitude to which we often condemn the poorest, both in developing countries and in the countries that are well-off. Every unborn child, but condemned unjustly to be aborted, has the face of Jesus Christ, has the face of the Lord, which even before birth, and then as soon as born, experiences the refusal of the world. And every old person and – I spoke about the child: let us go to the elderly, another point! And every older person, even if infirm or at the end of her days, bears herself the face of Christ. They can’t be thrown away, as the “throw-away culture” proposes to us! They can’t be thrown away!

Will this be reported today by the MSM in the wake of their coverage of the Big Interview?

I’m just asking.

[stanne]

Oh man!

[Rashputin]

" . . . will the anti Catholic Posters on this site recant?"

Nah, Self-Worshipers won't recant, they'll spew another layer of falsehood to soothe their own little Self Alone ego, call for reinforcements, and work even harder to lead others into damnation with them.

[stanne]

Thought so.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Dear .45 Long Colt,

There is no Reformation-era anathema applied to anybody today: as the Catechism says:

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"Non-Catholic Christian churches still possess the means of salvation"

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para 819 "Many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."

Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."

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"They have a right to be called Christians and brothers in the Lord"

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para 818 "One cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."

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"They are honored by the name of Christian, and in a certain communion with us"

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para 838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."

Without closing our eyes to objective theologial disagreements, I don't think any of us want to continue, or inflame, a 500-year-old spirit of grievance.

If you're interested n fuller context, you can click here to enter the Catechism at paragraph 818.

I think S. Paul's words (tagline) are meant for us.I certainly take them to heart.

[piusv]

Wait, so because he says in one breath we talk too much about abortion and then he speaks about abortion that automatically means that the media was wrong in what they reported?

Just because he spoke out against abortion (FINALLY) doesn’t wash away the comments that the Church shouldn’t speak so much about it or that everybody already KNOWS what the Church teaches about abortion.

Or maybe the Pope thought he better cool some folks off by (FINALLY) talking about abortion.

Or maybe all the confusion he causes is because he’s got a split personality.

[NYer]

C’mon, you know better than to pose that question, much less even ponder it. We catholics are all doomed to burn with the eternal flame ; - )

[.45 Long Colt]

Trent hurled 125 anathemas (eternal damnations) against Bible-believing Christians. These proclamations and anathemas were fleshed out in the murderous persecutions vented upon Bible-believing Christians by Rome, and the solemn fact is that the Council of Trent has never been annulled. The Vatican II Council of the mid-1960s referred to Trent dozens of times, quoted Trent’s proclamations as authority, and reaffirmed Trent on every hand. The New Catholic Catechism cites Trent no less than 99 times. There is not the slightest hint that the proclamations of the Council of Trent have been abrogated by Rome. At the opening of the Second Vatican Council, Pope John XXIII stated, “I do accept entirely all that has been decided and declared at the Council of Trent.” Every cardinal, bishop and priest who participated in the Vatican II Council signed a document affirming Trent.

[piusv]

And I see Vatican II as contradicting Trent. most Catholics here think that’s a good thing. I say it’s heresy.

[.45 Long Colt]

And I believe Rome officially declared herself apostate at Trent.

[stanne]

I’ve heard that before

[NYer]

And that he sketched out a future of homilies sans fire and brimstone — devoid of “small” moral imperative in favor of Kumbaya big tent “come on in, bros” — will be etched in peoples’ minds for a long time.

You may have missed this post on a previous thread. I would encourage you to read it and then read this one. Look forward to your comments.

[piusv]

As a Protestant that makes sense.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Colt,

First of all, "anathema" does not mean "eternal damnation." It literally means the lifting up (ana) of something separate (thema). In the Old Testament this expression was used both of things alienated (separated) due to sin, and of things separated for dedication to God.

In the acts of Councils, the word "anathema" came to express the realization that individuals have separated themselves from the Catholic Church. Realizing that she is unable to do anything for their salvation, in view of their refusal of penance and the sacraments, the earthly church lifts them up to be dealt with by God.

This does not mean damnation. God's judgment is merciful to repentant sinners, but fearsome for the unrepentant (Heb 10:31 ; 12:29).

I want you to know that "anathema" is not a way to say "God damn you," but "God will deal with you: we can't."

"The New Catholic Catechism cites Trent no less than 99 times. There is not the slightest hint that the proclamations of the Council of Trent have been abrogated by Rome."

I can see that if you used those links to get to the context of the Catechism, you evidently missed this: 818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ."

Obviously, saying that someone is "incorporated into Christ" is the exact, polar opposite of saying that they are separated unto damnation. That's more than a "slightest hint" -- it's a wholesale pledge of reconciliation.

"Affirming Trent" evidently doesn't mean "Anathematizing YOU," especially since neither you, nor anyone of your generation, is personally responsible for the schisms of the 16th century, for which, "often enough," the Council notes, "men of both sides were to blame."

Again, I don't think any of us want to continue, or inflame, a 500-year-old spirit of grievance.

[piusv]

What do you mean by “I don’t know about the traditionalists”?

[.45 Long Colt]

Anathema is a Scripture term. Are you suggesting Rome has changed the meaning?

[Mrs. Don-o]

I'm puzzled by this response. Perhaps I'm not understanding you correctly. I explained what "anathema" means in Scripture. Ana and thema mean "lifted up" and "separated." It does not mean "you are damned." (Nobody on earth can say that; Jesus Christ alone can judge.) It means "the Church can't deal with you; let God above deal with you."

You had incorrectly assumed that it means "We damn you to hell." This is not the case. The Church does not have, nor claim, this power.

It's very similar to an excommunication. The fact is, you have not been excommunicated not anathematized. And you are not asking for communion in the Catholic Church as far as I can tell. So how it troubles you, I do not know.

New tagline for you.

[piusv]

As far as I know, the Church has never changed the meaning of anathema. I believe Mrs. Don-o is correct in her explanation.

[.45 Long Colt]

I responded while sitting at a traffic light and I should not have done that. I misspoke. I responded to something you didn’t say.

I understand what anathema means. But I stand by my post that Trent has not been repealed. All that has really changed is the way these things are discussed. Not only has Rome not changed, she has moved further away from biblical Christianity since Trent.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Well, you are right when you say "Trent has not been repealed," and "All that has changed is the way things are discussed." That is true for sure. That, and the fact that there has been a development of doctrine n the past 500 years: not a repeal, not a reversal, but a deeper understanding of what the doctrine is, with al;l its implications.

I think perhaps a better understanding of the Development would help b>me explain how the Church is being led, as Jesus said, led by the Spirit into all truth. (I need to acquire this better understanding.) This is not the fabrication of novelties out of thin air, but the unfolding of the logical corollaries, and reasonable inferences, of Scripture as they are applied in the life of the Church.

This is not something you and I can resolve in one volley of remarks back and forth, nor in a year of volleys; but we can resolve to be at peace with each other, as befits disciples of the Lord Jesus. I pledge you peace in charity: O God, come to my assistance!

[.45 Long Colt]

Though we disagree on what biblical Christianity is, I wish you nothing but the best. If you and Mr. Don-o are ever near Memphis and have some time, let me know and I will buy you a cup of coffee and we can pour over the Scriptures together. I would love to show you from Scripture why I hold the positions I do. Chopped-up web comments are not the most effective way to communicate. Sometimes I come off as unduly argumentative and strident, but that’s not who I am and that’s not my heart. God bless.